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Err...gomen? m(__)m
So, for those of you who have been bugging me to do a "real post" …umm, I suck? That being said, here's me going off on a nice long rant about the latest SV episode "Progeny." In particular, about how NOT evil Lex is. (This was actually a heinously long comment to something ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
bagheera_san said, but neechan ordered me to write it up as it's own post, so blame her! ^_-)
I didn't see Lex doing anything particularly evil in this episode. Instead I find myself rather PISSED OFF at Moira and thought her to truly have a few screws loose. That being said, let's take stock in his "evil" acts:
First off, Lex finds a way to wake her from a 10 year coma, oh yes, incredibly EVOL action there, and from what we see of their conversation near the beginning of the ep, we are given every indication that Lex has been nothing but cordial to her. The only restrictions being she can't leave and can't see Chloe. To address the first one, he awoke her by using a very experimental treatment (and as the end of the ep shows, she slips RIGHT back into that coma so yeah, unstable drug) so even at a normal hospital, they would probably not want her gallivanting around and under constant supervision.
Now, Lex not letting her see Chloe? You could actually easily argue he was doing that for Chloe's own good, continuing to protect her as he as done in the past. Moira committed herself because she was concerned about HURTING HER DAUGHTER. So, yeah, of course, lets let her see said daughter. Sounds um…not so SANE to me. As Lex says, he knows the pain of losing a mother. What he doesn't add, but easily could, is he knows the pain of having mommie dearest come back and want him DEAD (see Flatliners ep). Maybe he actually wanted to be sure Moira wouldn't hurt people, more specifically Chloe, before letting her near her daughter. And of course, there's the fact that she's an insanely powerful meteor mutant, and as we've said multiple times, and even the "heroes" of the show agree, MM have a tendency to flip out and kill people all the time. I think Lex is being quite reasonable in wanting to see a show of faith before releasing her to the general public.
Moving on to when Lex's methods of persuasion change. There are actually two very reasonable causes for this. First, Moira attacked first, using Chloe as her weapon, right at the episodes get go. Now, Lex might not have known initially who assaulted him, but we know by the end of the episode that he has hard evidence that the assailant was Chloe . And Moira herself admits early on that she thought it was only her daughter she could manipulate. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together on that one. So yeah, him using questionable methods on this "innocent" woman? Innocent MY ASS.
Added to that, we know a MM *did* escaped, one that clearly had dangerous powers. Whether he was actually a psycho or not, we're never told, but considering the track record on the MMs, it's a pretty safe bet that Lex was actually telling the truth on that one. So, here's a solution for him to return this MM without anyone getting hut, Moira's refusing, so he ups the ante a little bit. Interesting that he uses another MM that is clearly obedient to Lex, (the guy keeps checking before he makes any moves). Lex didn't just set some crazy MM after her. As much as he might have scared her, he made sure it was actually a very controlled setting. Unlike when she brainwashed Chloe and sent her after Lex. Or when she sent the MM after Lex and Lana wound up getting hurt (not that we particularly care about Lana but…um…principle of the thing and all ^_-).
His next "evil" act: he has Chloe kidnapped and brought to the facility. But, if you think about it, this is AFTER her mother's yet again brainwashed her, and as the ep demonstrates numerous times, those under the influence are verrrry likely to hurt ANYTHING that gets in the way of their objective. I mean, Chloe uses Kryptonite on Clark, that's going pretty far! Drugging her was probably safest for everyone involved, including Chloe herself. And then he just brings her safely to Moira, with no actual threats or anything. If he really wanted to be evil, put a gun to Chloe's head and tell Moira to obey or she dies. Instead Lex reunites Mother and daughter. Oh, I'm drowning in the EVOL.
And with the final "threat", it's Chloe who starts it by writing the article, Lex just asks her to stop, in exchange for not arresting her for a VERY REAL CRIME! One which could have easily gotten him killed…twice over in fact. And when she refuses, he threatens…interestingly enough, without giving ANY specifics. And I find it even more interesting that he *knows* she's a MM and still has not just kidnapped her for 33.1. Doesn't anyone wonder why not? (I know *I* am? Why *hasn't* Lex gone after Chloe…or Clark for that matter? For that matter, why are they so ready to believe he'd sacrifice Lana to get at Clark? Lex hasn't gone after ANYONE Clark cares about, not once, even though they are all ridiculously easy, accessible targets. And out of any of the people Lex could use to manipulate Clark, why would he chose the one individual Lex purportedly has strong feelings for? )
See, this is what drives me NUTS about SV. On first watching, individual scenes suggest one thing (often Lex being a baddie, cue the "evvvvoool" music) but if you actually examine the motivations or the things not said thing, nothing ever HOLDS up! *sigh* There is not a single even partially consistent character in this show. So FRUSTRATING!!
And now onto my Moira loathing: First off, why is she so against Lex? She's been in a coma for TEN YEARS!! Lex was a BOY when she would have last heard his name. And he's the one who helped her out of it. Was she channeling the WB and the CW while in said coma?! Where does she get off saying he's oh so "evol" from what she sees of him? From the early on scenes, he seems to be being pretty reasonable with her, so where does the mistrust and hatred come from?!
Second, what the HELL is up with the way she uses Chloe?! Gee, I'm stuck, I'll manipulate my daughter into committing multiple crimes instead of, oh, I don't know, ordering her to write herself a note that reads "this is your mother, I need HELP." No, instead I'll have her attack and steal. Brilliant! Definitely a caring, responsible Mother there. Not to mention, how was Moira expecting Chloe to actually cotton on to what's happening? It's sheer luck that she and Clark are driving by and see Lex's car. If they hadn't, how long would it have been until she had figured out what these black out periods were signifying? Hell, Moira's lucky Chloe didn't get arrested before she even got around to attacking Lex, considering how she attacked someone at the mental institute.
And then there's the whole, I want to get my daughter involved in something very dangerous so she can free me so I can…um… SLIP BACK INTO A COMA?! Seriously, I know this may be a bit harsh but, if she's that serious about not letting herself get used…why, instead of involving Chloe, didn't she commit suicide? I know, that's dark…but she very adamantly chooses a coma. That's…um…very close to choosing death. Instead she simply puts a LOT of people at risk. Or, why doesn't she, instead of just denying that she has these abilities and stuff, at least try telling Lex: "I think I'm too dangerous, please, please just put me back under. Everyone will be safer that way." Now, we don't know if Lex would respect that request or not, but does she even try?
Moira's complete disregard for Chloe's welfare for most of this episode kinda disturbs me. She committed herself because she said she was afraid of hurting her daughter, and yet, first thing she does? Drags Chloe into her shit. And uses her, repeatedly. What is it with this show and parents brainwashing their kiddies? Chloe could have been arrested or seriously injured when she sent her after Lex in the beginning!
I just…grr…this episode really bothered me. Why is it that most of the characters, especially the women, drive me so nuts on SV and yet I *like* even the random throw-away babes of the week on Supernatural? *sigh* Why must SV has such amazing potential and NEVER live up to it?!
bagheera_san said, but neechan ordered me to write it up as it's own post, so blame her! ^_-)I didn't see Lex doing anything particularly evil in this episode. Instead I find myself rather PISSED OFF at Moira and thought her to truly have a few screws loose. That being said, let's take stock in his "evil" acts:
First off, Lex finds a way to wake her from a 10 year coma, oh yes, incredibly EVOL action there, and from what we see of their conversation near the beginning of the ep, we are given every indication that Lex has been nothing but cordial to her. The only restrictions being she can't leave and can't see Chloe. To address the first one, he awoke her by using a very experimental treatment (and as the end of the ep shows, she slips RIGHT back into that coma so yeah, unstable drug) so even at a normal hospital, they would probably not want her gallivanting around and under constant supervision.
Now, Lex not letting her see Chloe? You could actually easily argue he was doing that for Chloe's own good, continuing to protect her as he as done in the past. Moira committed herself because she was concerned about HURTING HER DAUGHTER. So, yeah, of course, lets let her see said daughter. Sounds um…not so SANE to me. As Lex says, he knows the pain of losing a mother. What he doesn't add, but easily could, is he knows the pain of having mommie dearest come back and want him DEAD (see Flatliners ep). Maybe he actually wanted to be sure Moira wouldn't hurt people, more specifically Chloe, before letting her near her daughter. And of course, there's the fact that she's an insanely powerful meteor mutant, and as we've said multiple times, and even the "heroes" of the show agree, MM have a tendency to flip out and kill people all the time. I think Lex is being quite reasonable in wanting to see a show of faith before releasing her to the general public.
Moving on to when Lex's methods of persuasion change. There are actually two very reasonable causes for this. First, Moira attacked first, using Chloe as her weapon, right at the episodes get go. Now, Lex might not have known initially who assaulted him, but we know by the end of the episode that he has hard evidence that the assailant was Chloe . And Moira herself admits early on that she thought it was only her daughter she could manipulate. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together on that one. So yeah, him using questionable methods on this "innocent" woman? Innocent MY ASS.
Added to that, we know a MM *did* escaped, one that clearly had dangerous powers. Whether he was actually a psycho or not, we're never told, but considering the track record on the MMs, it's a pretty safe bet that Lex was actually telling the truth on that one. So, here's a solution for him to return this MM without anyone getting hut, Moira's refusing, so he ups the ante a little bit. Interesting that he uses another MM that is clearly obedient to Lex, (the guy keeps checking before he makes any moves). Lex didn't just set some crazy MM after her. As much as he might have scared her, he made sure it was actually a very controlled setting. Unlike when she brainwashed Chloe and sent her after Lex. Or when she sent the MM after Lex and Lana wound up getting hurt (not that we particularly care about Lana but…um…principle of the thing and all ^_-).
His next "evil" act: he has Chloe kidnapped and brought to the facility. But, if you think about it, this is AFTER her mother's yet again brainwashed her, and as the ep demonstrates numerous times, those under the influence are verrrry likely to hurt ANYTHING that gets in the way of their objective. I mean, Chloe uses Kryptonite on Clark, that's going pretty far! Drugging her was probably safest for everyone involved, including Chloe herself. And then he just brings her safely to Moira, with no actual threats or anything. If he really wanted to be evil, put a gun to Chloe's head and tell Moira to obey or she dies. Instead Lex reunites Mother and daughter. Oh, I'm drowning in the EVOL.
And with the final "threat", it's Chloe who starts it by writing the article, Lex just asks her to stop, in exchange for not arresting her for a VERY REAL CRIME! One which could have easily gotten him killed…twice over in fact. And when she refuses, he threatens…interestingly enough, without giving ANY specifics. And I find it even more interesting that he *knows* she's a MM and still has not just kidnapped her for 33.1. Doesn't anyone wonder why not? (I know *I* am? Why *hasn't* Lex gone after Chloe…or Clark for that matter? For that matter, why are they so ready to believe he'd sacrifice Lana to get at Clark? Lex hasn't gone after ANYONE Clark cares about, not once, even though they are all ridiculously easy, accessible targets. And out of any of the people Lex could use to manipulate Clark, why would he chose the one individual Lex purportedly has strong feelings for? )
See, this is what drives me NUTS about SV. On first watching, individual scenes suggest one thing (often Lex being a baddie, cue the "evvvvoool" music) but if you actually examine the motivations or the things not said thing, nothing ever HOLDS up! *sigh* There is not a single even partially consistent character in this show. So FRUSTRATING!!
And now onto my Moira loathing: First off, why is she so against Lex? She's been in a coma for TEN YEARS!! Lex was a BOY when she would have last heard his name. And he's the one who helped her out of it. Was she channeling the WB and the CW while in said coma?! Where does she get off saying he's oh so "evol" from what she sees of him? From the early on scenes, he seems to be being pretty reasonable with her, so where does the mistrust and hatred come from?!
Second, what the HELL is up with the way she uses Chloe?! Gee, I'm stuck, I'll manipulate my daughter into committing multiple crimes instead of, oh, I don't know, ordering her to write herself a note that reads "this is your mother, I need HELP." No, instead I'll have her attack and steal. Brilliant! Definitely a caring, responsible Mother there. Not to mention, how was Moira expecting Chloe to actually cotton on to what's happening? It's sheer luck that she and Clark are driving by and see Lex's car. If they hadn't, how long would it have been until she had figured out what these black out periods were signifying? Hell, Moira's lucky Chloe didn't get arrested before she even got around to attacking Lex, considering how she attacked someone at the mental institute.
And then there's the whole, I want to get my daughter involved in something very dangerous so she can free me so I can…um… SLIP BACK INTO A COMA?! Seriously, I know this may be a bit harsh but, if she's that serious about not letting herself get used…why, instead of involving Chloe, didn't she commit suicide? I know, that's dark…but she very adamantly chooses a coma. That's…um…very close to choosing death. Instead she simply puts a LOT of people at risk. Or, why doesn't she, instead of just denying that she has these abilities and stuff, at least try telling Lex: "I think I'm too dangerous, please, please just put me back under. Everyone will be safer that way." Now, we don't know if Lex would respect that request or not, but does she even try?
Moira's complete disregard for Chloe's welfare for most of this episode kinda disturbs me. She committed herself because she said she was afraid of hurting her daughter, and yet, first thing she does? Drags Chloe into her shit. And uses her, repeatedly. What is it with this show and parents brainwashing their kiddies? Chloe could have been arrested or seriously injured when she sent her after Lex in the beginning!
I just…grr…this episode really bothered me. Why is it that most of the characters, especially the women, drive me so nuts on SV and yet I *like* even the random throw-away babes of the week on Supernatural? *sigh* Why must SV has such amazing potential and NEVER live up to it?!
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http://ladydreamer.livejournal.com/226843.html
I didn't catch the point where the MM kept checking with Lex in the cage,but I believe it. Getting her hurt wouldn't serve anyone's interests.
I'd believe that Moira distrusts Lex because she's a paranoid schizophrenic. She's awake, but still not completely healed. She's abusive and controlling to Chloe, even though she says that she doesn't want to be, so I think either she's lying or she can't judge how her actions might affect her daughter.
His next "evil" act: he has Chloe kidnapped and brought to the facility. But, if you think about it, this is AFTER her mother's yet again brainwashed her, and as the ep demonstrates numerous times, those under the influence are verrrry likely to hurt ANYTHING that gets in the way of their objective.
Another really good point. Someone had to protect Chloe from her mother's powers, though it would have been smarter for him to talk to Chloe before letting her see her mother.
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Yeah, that's one of the things that confuses me the most. I just do NOT understand what Lex was thinking putting her in with her mother. And really, the truth was, he wasn't. Cause the writers of the show care about NOTHING but advancing the individual scene. This is why Lex comes across as incompetent so often. They're like, we need this to happen. Okay, make it happen. Well, that doesn't really make any *sense* why X character would actually do that--Who the fuck cares about LOGIC, just do it, get the scene written.
GRRR!! *deep breath* Okay, I'm better now...*really* ^_-
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Yes! Her first move being controlling Chloe to get her out of the hospital while could be justifiable, writing that note would still be easier. Not to mention how she's suppose to explain to Chloe she got out of the hospital on her own...
Then there's Chloe's reaction to Moira itself, "lets escape together!" Eeee~ Chloe, your own mother just said she made you wash your hands until they bleed, while that might have been an accident, it certainly does not mean it was the first time she used her ability on you.
I don't understand Lex at all this episode, it'll be easier for Lex to talk to Chloe about her mother first before letting them see each other, but I guess then Chloe won't get to shoot at Lex. -_-; Damnit, is Lex even explaining anything to the mutants at 33.1? This mutant *shows picture* is dangerous, I want you to bring him back here. So would not cut it with me if anyone want me to do something I don't agree with. Communication Lex! You need to do more of it.
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Yeah, I hadn't even thought about this one. By why *isn't* she more afraid of her mommie? Not only has her mother freely admitted she hurt Chloe in the past, but she's a Meteor Mutant, and by Chloe's own pronouncement, they're "walking time bombs" What makes her think mommie dearest hasn't already totally flipped her lid? NONE of her actions appear to suggest otherwise!
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Too bad Chloe was already born when the meteors hit, cause if Chloe have the same powers as her mother, my new crack idea is that she flipped out and went on to control Lex to be evil. It'll make a lot more sense than what we're getting. Way early in the series (Season 2-3) I thought Chloe would trade up and be Lex's minion, but no such luck. *sigh*
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B5 Quotes!
Unfortunately, my only B5 icon is my "Ace" Sinclair one.
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And yeah, I unfortunately don't have any other B5 icons either...which is sad, considering how much I worship the show...
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I wholeheartedly agree with your points of argument re: Moira (though not without initial reservations because I have a soft spot for heroes' mothers), but the thing that bothers me the most is the possible retcon of Lex's mutant status. Wtf is up with that, writers?
Why is it that most of the characters, especially the women, drive me so nuts on SV
Lana, Chloe, and Martha have been driving me nuts this season, that I find myself looking forward to Lois-in-between-eps fanservice-y therapy!
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I cant totally respect that, though at this point, I have a LOT of difficulty as seeing Chloe as a "hero" in this ep. Leaving aside all the stuff her mom makes her do, there are two scenes that reeeeallly disturb me.
First, when she questions the meteor guy with a gun. Now at first, it's reasonable, guy attacked Lana, obviously dangerous. And then *she* comes to the conclusion her mother was controlling him AND then he says he was being "held". And what does she do...KEEPS POINTING HER GUN AT HIM. He was manipulated and imprisoned, and yet she doesn't even hesitate, keeps threatening him. Does this mean she's acknowledging that because he's a meteor freak, odds are verrrrrry good that he's dangerous even when *not* under her mother's manipulations. Cause if so, OH my FUCKING christ, hypocrite, much?! If that's what Clark and Chloe truly believe, and every time they talk about Meteor mutants, they do just seem to clump the whole bunch into dangerous, then I just see the two of them as COWARDS. Because, deep down, they *know* these people are dangerous, *know* something has to be done, but they'd rather take the rightous route, condemn Lex, while at the same time, allowing him to continue what he's doing. This way, they never have to *make* the tough moral choice, but what really needs to get done still gets done, ie, finding a way to contain these people and their powers.
And second disturbing scene: when Chloe sees her mother demonstrate her powers on the mutant Lowell. She looks turned on! Oh look, my mother can manipulate powerful people and make them attack and injure others. So COOL! Um...hon, you say LEX is doing crimes against humanity?! Manipulating people against their will, making them hurt and possibly kill others?! That's not exactly fucking HUMANE!?! GRRRRRRR! *deeep breath* I swear, no other fandom has ever *pissed* me off quite this much, nor inspired this much metaing and ranting from me and
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Only the future eps will prove what will happen to Chloe, or what she means to do with all she knows (though what exactly she believes still needs to be elaborated), but right now I don't know what to make of her. Which is why I'm thankful for your meta, even though it comes from being pissed off. I guess we get angry because we love. ^_^
i am so glad , it does *g*
inspiring this in both of you *g*
anger is a great fuel for even greater art ;D
and for me, the end ALWAYS justifies any means. so I will just pray, that the writers of the show will keep on fucking up, and let the fic writers show what a potential SV could have.
not that I believe, that the show could under any circumstances live up the expectations we, as a fandom, could hold, because we have to many larger.than.life clex fics, that are legendary :)