gnine | SGA: An Essay on Keller

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SGA: An Essay on Keller

This wasn't meant to be quite so long, it kinda got away from me.

xparrot and I have been spending ~~a lot of~~ far too much time discussing one of our growing frustrations with SGA: the character of Keller. Finally, enough was enough, and I realized I just had to get it all down on paper, to get it out of my system, if nothing else. And thus, this monstrosity was born:

A Question of Motivation

First off, I want to be clear: this isn't meant as character bashing. It's a question, a fundamental issue with the character that's been bothering me more and more.

Also important to establish right off the bat: I was never a particularly big Carson fan. I didn't dislike him, but he was in no way my favorite. I say this to make it clear that while yes, I was sorry to see him go, I wasn't heartbroken, and his loss didn't bias me against Keller. Just the reverse: when I first heard that Jewel Staite would be replacing him, I was ecstatic. I loved her in Firefly, enjoyed her portrayal of Kaylee-Wraith in "Instinct," and was enthusiastic to see what she would add to the Atlantis assemble. Sadly, while I continue to love the actress, I don't think the writers have delivered in terms of character.

That said, on to the question: What is Keller doing on Atlantis?

This is really a two-fold inquiry: Why did Atlantis/SGC/IOA bring her on board? and What was Keller's own motivation for going there? For all the other major (and many of the minor) characters, we can easily answer at least one of those two questions, and in many cases, both. But Keller?

I've seen several people cite her ordinariness and her lack of confidence as pluses. Something "normal", "believable" amidst a cast of "superheroes." In other shows, I might agree. But what place does "normal" have on Atlantis? As your Head of Medicine? At that young an age? In that prestigious, not to mention dangerous, a place? She better be damn special, better outshine them all. Because that's how you get and retain a position such as that. Atlantis is not a mundane place and neither are the people on it. Is Keller?

People argue that Keller is no worse off-world/in battle/outside of her standard duties, etc. than Carson or early Rodney. And I agree. She's no worse, but she's no better, either. And she *should* be. Why? No double standard, just a fundamental difference: Carson and Rodney both were on Atlantis from the beginning. That first year was different. They didn't even know if there would be other gates in Pegasus, or if they'd ever need to go off-world. Additionally, they were both *vital* to the mission. No one (except perhaps Carter, who couldn't be spared at the time) knew more about Ancient tech than Rodney, and Carson had the gene, the second strongest manifestation of it after John. Plus there was his research on the gene therapy. Weighed against these skills, their lack of experience in the field was moot.

Keller, on the other hand, joined the project late in the game. By the time she came, everyone knew what they were getting into. Medical personnel had been sent off-world multiple times, not to mention there were all the dangers on Atlantis itself. Back in "Intruder", when Carson is picking new staff, he's bemoaning the fact that all these people are more qualified than him, especially noting their physical prowess: "hobbies include judo, horseback riding and base-jumping". Totally reasonable. The SGC is looking to recruit civilians with varied skill sets, beyond their chosen field. People who will do well in *any* situation Pegasus can possibly throw at them. And Pegasus certainly pitches a lot of extreme ones. What are Keller's "extra" skills?

Then there's her age. Being SG, which is notoriously bad about giving characters' ages, we can't know for sure how old she is. In at least one case (David Hewlett) we know the character is meant to be the same age as the actor. If this holds true with Keller/Jewel, that puts her somewhere around twenty-six. *Maybe* they could bump that up to thirty, but even so, that's awfully young to be the head of anything, especially the Head of Medicine at an international, highly elite facility. Keller mentions skipping grades (which one would assume would be true of virtually everyone on Atlantis) but still, head positions are usually based not just on smarts, but *experience*. 'Quarantine' suggests she got her bachelor's at seventeen. Which means she might have gotten her MD by twenty, so she has six years' experience tops, including her internship. Every other position of authority on Atlantis has been filled by people in their mid-thirties or older.

Now, they might overlook Keller's lack of field experience/physical ability, not to mention her youth, if she had something else going for her. Something beyond 'competent doctor'. But so far we have never been given an example of any special skill, nothing that makes her "vital" or "unique" to the project. Yes, she's a good doctor, I'm not denying that. But there are a LOT of good doctors out there. What separates her from the crowd? Why did the SGC single her out? And not just for any position, but a position high in the command structure, later granting her Head Medical Officer of *Atlantis*?

Moving on to the second part of the question: Keller's own motivation.

When we first meet Keller, she's *begging* Elizabeth to find her a replacement, and Elizabeth denies her request. Leaving aside the question of *why* Elizabeth has faith in her , if Keller didn't want to be in charge, didn't feel she could handle it, why did she take the position? One that placed her one step away from being in command? In a place as dangerous and unpredictable as Atlantis, the odds that you're going to have to step up and replace your boss are *high*.

Personal ambition could explain it (like with Kavanagh, who is a much greater coward, but keeps returning regardless because his ego demands it. He believes, however misguided, that he's got the chops). But Keller wants *out* of command, eager to give it away. The very opposite of ambition.

Carson, beyond the needs of his gene, comes because of his research. He states in "Hide and Seek" that the ATA gene therapy couldn't be tested back on Earth, too many regulations. He's come to Pegasus to play mad scientist. But we haven't seen Keller really engage in research, beyond what she did in "Kindred" and "The Seed", which was borne not of personal interest but a desperate need to save Carson and the Athosians, and which was entirely based on Michael's and Carson's previous research.

Doctor Porter, in "Whispers", states she's interested in adventure, exploring, meeting strange new people. Considering Keller's reactions in "Missing" and "Trio", adventure and exploration are the furthest thing from her mind.

Conversely, she's been given several reasons to stay back on earth. Besides her seeming lack of love for danger/adventure/physical exertion, all things she should have expected to face on Atlantis, she mentions her father back in "Missing". She's "all he's got left." Why take a position as far from home as you can *ever*, in any realm of the imagination, get? One in which the odds of coming back from aren't so hot. You'd need some pretty hefty motivation to overcome that. We've never gotten even a hint.

She first tells Elizabeth she hopes the IOA will make a quick decision, she'd like to go back to being "a regular doctor." You can *never* be a regular doctor as the head of medicine on Atlantis. Circumstances won't allow it. What made her want to stay after the grand FUBAR that was "Adrift"/"Lifeline"? What made her want to go in the first place? She's certainly not military, she wasn't assigned there. Atlantis, canonically, has a very rigorous application process. Why struggle through it when you can be a regular doctor in the comfort and safety of your own galaxy?

The reason these questions matter so much to me, besides the obvious fan-urge of "I need to know," is that a character's goals, their motivations and passions, are how I form emotional attachments to them and thus to the show.

Teyla leaves her people for her people. She feels Atlantis is her people's best hope of salvation. She will do *anything* for them, and when she loses them? You can empathize, fully support her drive to find them, cheer when she's reunited, because they are her passion, her focus.

Ronon will keep fighting until "every Wraith in the galaxy is dead". When he's forced to work with them, when they get the better of him, you wince for him, you understand his anger and frustration, and you cheer when he turns the situation back around, kicks some Wraith ass, because you *know* how damn satisfied it's making him.

Rodney's passion, his life, his reason d'etre, is his science, his intelligence, his hope of a Nobel. Every brilliant break-through, every discovery, you know he's a bit closer to that goal. And when it fails him, when his smarts betray him (Trinity), it *hurts*, and the audience sighs/whimpers/writes copious amounts of tag fic.

John never really wanted to come to Atlantis in the first place, had to be talked into it, in face of resentment from his CEO. But he overcame that, made a home there, a family, people he will do *anything* for. His team, his 'family' is John's motivation. And every time he goes batshit crazy determined to help/save them, we cheer (or squee) over his loyalty, his dedication, his ability to protect what he loves.

Their traits, their passions and goals are defined and focused. A clear path for the characters to walk on, for the writers to build upon, for the fans to latch onto. What is Keller's drive, what is her character's destination? What are her obstacles and pitfalls along the way?

Her ambitions are murky and her flaws? Superfluous. Her lack of confidence, which comes and goes, could make for a character arc, except she never has to overcome it.

Professionally, she's told over and over she's doing a great job and never once has she had to face consequences for her fuck-ups. Using the nanites on Elizabeth was originally her idea, but Rodney takes all the heat for it. It's ironic that the decision Elizabeth so loathed started with the person she had such faith in, an irony that's never once touched upon. In "The Shrine", *Keller* blames herself for missing what happened to Rodney, and as his doctor, she's right. It's her fault she didn't diagnose it sooner. But no one else accuses her. On the contrary, they reassure her. Every other character on the show has had their actions questioned, doubted. Argued against. Forced to prove they're correct, or give in in the face of irrefutable fact. Most of them have had their jobs directly on the line, the IOA demanding justification.

In "The Shrine", there's disagreement, but they never outright state they think Keller's wrong, that she won't cure him. They imply it, considering their one want is the chance to say goodbye, meaning they've given up on her finding a cure, but they don't accuse her directly. When tensions run high, the characters often turn the professional personal. "Hot Zone" (John and Elizabeth), "Trinity" (John and Rodney, Teyla and Ronon), "Adrift" (John and Rodney). They get angry with each other. But in "The Shrine", no one gets angry at Keller for refusing them, just frustrated at the situation. Jeannie is the only one who can resist the Keller-love enough to directly point out her failing, that she's no closer to a solution.

Which brings us to her social "flaws". She tells Ronon it's "the story of my life", never fitting in. But she's been accepted into the inner circle of Atlantis faster and closer than any other character except Jeannie (and she's Rodney's family.) By "Doppelganger", only her third ep, Keller's already eating lunch all chummily with the team, in a way that we never saw even Carson or Elizabeth doing, let alone Zelenka, Lorne, Heightmeyer, etc. Ronon, who hasn't felt ready to be with anyone in nine years, starts expressing interest. Teyla's ready to open up to her about her personal life. Keller's feeling comfortable enough to tease Rodney about his hypochondria by "Tabula Rasa". Her interaction with Carson in "Kindred II" suggests a fairly close relationship with him before he died. She doesn't have to struggle with being accepted; they all love her and welcome her into the group immediately.

Comparatively, Sam, who already had personal connections with Rodney, never gets that close. It takes until "Kindred" for her to feel comfortable enough to invite Teyla to address her by her first name.

So much of Keller, her strengths and her weaknesses, her confidence and her competence, her social awkwardness and familiarity with the main cast, vary wildly from episode to episode. I believe most of this stems from the lack of direction. She has no clear problem to overcome, no obvious goal to strive for, no dream to fulfill, no passion to indulge in. Every writer, in every individual script, has to answer that question anew, instead of having it clearly before them. Here her purpose is as love interest, there it’s being a doctor. Here it suits the plot for her to be meek, there flirtatious is the key. It makes for screenwriter schizophrenia to the extreme, the cure for which, at least in part, would have been to answer, at the character's conception: What is she *doing* here, and why does she stay?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Rodney got super pissed at John for his flirtation with Chaya because Rodney saw that as John's libido endangering the security of Atlantis, i.e. John failing to do his job. Excellent point.

Before I saw Tracker, I firmly believed that Rodney would get better after The Shrine and then be unbelievably pissed at Keller - not only because her distraction put his life at risk but because the him she was so smitten with wasn't the real him. If it were me, behaviour like that would make me want to smack them, not ask them out.

I wonder how it would have gone if, instead of Keller, Carson had been around for The Shrine and done the same things Keller did. Would Rodney have gotten angry with him for not noticing that Rodney was sick? Probably. But even if Rodney didn't blame Carson, at the least there'd be a serious breach of trust between them.

Keller is supposed to be Rodney's DOCTOR -- and we all know how seriously Rodney takes his health -- how is he supposed to trust someone who can't see he's behaving oddly? Not to mention, how do you DATE someone like that?

It's times like these that make me really rue the lack of continuity in this show.

Honestly, it's the fact that she prefers "nice" Rodney that bothers me more. I get this really hollow, sad feeling in the pit of my stomach because he seriously doesn't think he can be loved the way he is. He thinks he has to pretend, and make himself into the image his crush has constructed of him, and that makes me very uncomfortable. I've been there and it's not the way to build a loving, equal relationship. He's setting himself up for failure again, and I don't want to see him go through that (and neither does John, from the look on his face during That Scene at the start). If I were Rodney, I'd be disturbed by the idea that someone I care about essentially *doesn't really like me*, but he just seems to see it as a challenge that has to be overcome. "She doesn't like me? OK then, I'll just be someone else."

It is horribly sad, but I just smash that in with my general denial over Rodney trying to date at all, otherwise things get too depressing. It helps to remember that Rodney does have people who love him for who he is. Plus he's still learning about being a person! He's gotten so much better over the years, but he still has trouble relating in a socially acceptable way. He'll eventually learn that being respectful is different from being an entirely different person.

I mean, yes, it would be fantastic if Rodney could find someone on the show who loves him for who he is, who he loves back, but, honestly, that's what I read fanfic for. Because this show's never going to be able to deliver that (see also: Katie Brown). It should really stop trying. It's just a stupid space show. Romance isn't its strong suit. Unless we're talking unintentional romance, like John/Rodney and Ronon/Elizabeth.

There's a big difference, though, between not liking Rodney *at all* (which is clearly not the case; she asked him out in Trio, after spending hours trapped in a cave with Rodney at his most disagreeable) and liking him better when he's being nice to her. If you think back to McKay & Mrs. Miller, all of Rodney's friends loved Rod -- it wasn't that they didn't like Rodney (though he may have seen it that way) but, at least until the creepiness started getting to them, they really enjoyed being around a Rodney without all of his personality flaws. Rodney's a sweet guy and I love him, but he's also a very abrasive and condescending guy, even at the best of times. I don't see why Keller wouldn't be expected to appreciate Rodney being kinder to her, and obviously Rodney's friends felt the same way, since there's no mention of any of them becoming suspicious, either.

Also, the personality changes don't seem that huge to me. When they started making the tapes, which presumably was after they discovered the parasite and what it was doing, his "Day One" personality still seemed like essentially Rodney McKay. Even when he's as far along as he is in the scene on the pier with John, the difference is only one of degree -- he still strikes me as basically Rodney. The difference had to have been incredibly subtle in the early days.

When they started making the tapes, which presumably was after they discovered the parasite and what it was doing, his "Day One" personality still seemed like essentially Rodney McKay.

Really? Interesting. Me and neechan both had the reaction of "OMG" freakishly disconcerting. It was like a DH interview, not Rodney at all. His mannerism, his attitude, pitch, carefree, more joking feel.

Honestly, it's the fact that she prefers "nice" Rodney that bothers me more. I get this really hollow, sad feeling in the pit of my stomach because he seriously doesn't think he can be loved the way he is.

Yes, yes YES. That is probably, hands down, my biggest problem with the McKeller. We've seen no evidence that she really likes Rodney for *Rodney*. And he doesn't believe she could like him for that. I keep shouting "don't worry, Rodney, John loves you for you!". And even if you're not looking at it in a slashy way, just friendship, he still loves hanging out with Rodney, shares humor and hobbies. They're themselves when they're together!

er...*cough* Um...so I might be a little resentful of the McKeller. Just a tad. A skosh. :-p

Actually, I think the show's done a pretty good job of showing that it's Rodney who believes he has to fake it for people, rather than others trying to make him (I'm thinking of Quarantine, where Katie tells him to stop being so hard on himself). He has a lifetime of negative thinking to undo, so I don't think any relationship would come easy to him (But I want it to be John *G*)

Actually, that's not true. She asked him out after Trio, and he was very, very Rodney in Trio. He panicked, he tried to show off with his rope throwing skills (and failed), he got angry and frustrated and scared, he yelled, he tried to give up, and he talked about how hot Carter's body was....As I said, he was very Rodney. And it was after all of that that she asked him out. So, I'm pretty sure she likes him as "Rodney", foibles and all.

I don't think it's Keller -- I think it's Rodney, thinking he has to change to be liked. I think he got that idea in his head after he lost Katie. He studied on what happened in Quarantine, and that's where his mind got messed up. You can't blame Keller for Rodney's own self-doubt.

I agree with this, on the whole. I do kind of think that it would be strange for Rodney not to start behaving differently towards Keller once he started crushing on her, not necessarily because he felt he had to change but just because when we start crushing on someone, we very often do start behaving differently towards them. But yes, I think Keller likes Rodney for Rodney and that that's made apparent in Trio, and that she probably didn't notice his odd behavior because his "odd" behavior was pretty in keeping with how a lot of people act when they're crushing hard on someone.

And yeah, maybe Rodney wouldn't have gotten out-and-out angry with Carson, either, but he certainly would've been a little snippy

I'm so confused by this. What did Jennifer do that should have pissed off Rodney? Wasn't the delay only a day or so? Didn't all of his very close friends (including John) also miss his behavior being off?

Yeah, exactly! If anyone failed Rodney in that situation, it's his closest friends, who apparently didn't notice his personality changes either. If nothing else, why didn't Teyla and Ronon recognize the symptoms, which should have been familiar to them? I don't really feel like anyone ought to be blamed there, but of all of them, Keller probably bears the least culpability, because she's not as familiar with what Rodney is normally like -- and we know from Tracker that he sometimes deliberately changes how he acts around her, too, which doesn't help!

Sorry, I mentioned this earlier in another post to you, I think. But everyone keeps saying this. What evidence are we ever, ever given that his friends *didn't* notice? They have the one minute with him right after he wakes up. Yes, he already seems a bit chipper to me. But then even that, compared to the reeeally flirty/happy Rodney of fruit cup scene even seems like a big difference. And then we actually have no evidence, not a single shred, that the team saw him again before they realized something was wrong. Even when John is being all supportive of Keller, saying "It's not your fault" he never says, "we didn't notice either, none of us did".

It's just something that's thrown me off, cause pretty much everyone on both sides of the argument agree that his friends missed it too. But the show never, anyone, actually implies or shows that. And since John is going out of his way to reassure Keller, you think he *would* say that if it were the case.

And then we actually have no evidence, not a single shred, that the team saw him again before they realized something was wrong.

As you said, not a single shred of evidence -- either way. So all we can do is fill in the missing time based on the most logical scenario.

To me, the most likely possibility is that the timespan between Rodney waking up and Keller noticing something was wrong (or someone else noticing and bringing it to her attention) was very short. Because otherwise, you have to believe one of two things is true: either Rodney's close friends were around him for several days without noticing anything was wrong, or Rodney VANISHED (either stayed in the infirmary, or in his quarters), being seen by no one but Keller, and no one noticed his absence or thought to visit him. Either of the last two options basically rely on everyone else being total idiots and/or not at all concerned about his welfare (would they really have left him in the infirmary for days without coming to see him?) so the most plausible scenario that I can see is that the timespan was quite short. And we've already seen that Rodney in "courting mode" acts different than he normally does (see Tracker), and Keller also knows this (since she was around Rodney and Katie, e.g. in Tabula Rasa when Katie's in the infirmary). Actually -- was Rodney's flirtiness with the fruit cup any different from how he was acting around Katie when she was sick in Tabula Rasa?

I do recognize your point that rather than showing Keller actively working on a cure, they instead showed her spending time with Rodney or watching the tape. But I see that as mostly being a function of compressing everything into 45 minutes. TPTB needed to cram a lot of characters and a lot of scenes into this episode, and the most logical places to cut corners are those places where we can guess at what's happening. The most logical scenes to cut out are the scenes of Keller working on a cure, because we can infer that she's doing this from logical deduction and from the dialogue; we don't have to see it to know that it occurred. Whereas the Rodney/Keller scenes -- if the writers are going for a Rodney/Keller angle on this episode, which they clearly were, those scenes needed to be in there in order for the viewers to know that they happened, because none of the characters would conveniently talk about them and we couldn't infer from context.

Basically ... just because we see a ten-second scene of Keller in the infirmary, late at night, watching Rodney's tape while surrounded by lab equipment and medical computers with active screens, my first thought is not that she's spent the last ten hours sitting in the infirmary watching the tape, and then lied to his friends about working on the cure. It just doesn't seem to follow logically for me! It does not seem consistent with the rest of her scenes to assume that she's lazy and deceptive, nor do I think that Elizabeth would have put a lazy and deceptive person in charge of the medical department. It seems more plausible to assume that, in the time we didn't see, she was mostly doing labwork and working on the computer; now it's the middle of the night and she's brain-fried and has taken a pause to watch the tape. (And, yes, watching a tape of someone telling you they love you while under the control of something that breaks down inhibitions and mental faculties... that *is* sad. But more "lonely person sad" than "creepy stalker sad" to me. People seem to be generally assuming that Rodney's conversation with Sheppard on the pier was sincere -- that he meant what he said to John, not that he was confused and incoherent and not really Rodney. Yet people are assuming that at roughly the same time he was having this sincere conversation with John, he was totally out of his head and mistaking Jennifer's kindness towards him for something more. While I don't think his "I love you" was 100% accurate to the emotions he was feeling -- we've already seen that Rodney is a terrible judge of such things -- I don't think it was any less sincere or indicative of his deep-down feelings than his conversation with John on the pier, and I don't blame Keller for responding to it.)

I do recognize your point that rather than showing Keller actively working on a cure, they instead showed her spending time with Rodney or watching the tape.

This is where I feel the show, the writing of the show, the writing of "The Shrine", undercuts Keller's abilities as a doctor in favor of putting her in a pairing. I agree they needed time to establish the relationship if they were going to include it at all; I just keep thinking that if Keller had been Carson, the ep would have focused more on what Carson actually was doing to try to save Rodney. (Or maybe it would've had more Zelenka or something, considering we see Carson doing bloody all nothing to save Rodney in "Tao," save what Rodney asks for help with. Carson, you ass. Umm, where was I?)

(This is where I get all weird and obsessive, because I have a gut feeling that Keller has gotten less medical technobabble than Carson has. I don't have proof of this, I just have an urge to, I dunno, count out their technobabble-to-other-dialogue ratio and see whose is higher. I get this impression that one of the reasons most people perceive Keller as less brilliant than Rodney or Carson is because she isn't given as much opportunity to show off her mad skillz, and that her accomplishments are overshadowed; there are times that what Carson or Rodney does is spelled out, while Keller's achievements are more background - and therefore more difficult to attribute directly to her. E.g. we know Carson engineered the original Wraith-to-human retrovirus from scratch, because he tells us so; if he was working with a team, they're not mentioned. While as we know that Keller was following Michael's research to make the Wraith-fix in "The Queen", since Michael already had gotten it working with himself; but we don't know how much Keller had to change it to work on other Wraith.)

People seem to be generally assuming that Rodney's conversation with Sheppard on the pier was sincere -- that he meant what he said to John, not that he was confused and incoherent and not really Rodney. Yet people are assuming that at roughly the same time he was having this sincere conversation with John, he was totally out of his head and mistaking Jennifer's kindness towards him for something more.

Hmmm, interesting. To me, what Rodney said on the pier wasn't really important; it was John's reactions to it that were significant - the pier scene for me was much more about John's feelings for Rodney than vice versa. What touched me then was not Rodney's wish to say goodbye, but John's refusal. Rodney's feelings for John I saw much later, on say day 15, when he had lost more of his mind and was still crying out for John, not recognizing Jennifer even when she was right there with him.

This is where I feel the show, the writing of the show, the writing of "The Shrine", undercuts Keller's abilities as a doctor in favor of putting her in a pairing. I agree they needed time to establish the relationship if they were going to include it at all; I just keep thinking that if Keller had been Carson, the ep would have focused more on what Carson actually was doing to try to save Rodney. ... This is where I get all weird and obsessive, because I have a gut feeling that Keller has gotten less medical technobabble than Carson has.

See -- this is a criticism I can get behind, because I think you're probably right -- that the show is not really fair to Keller in that area, and that we see more of her personal scenes with the other characters than scenes of her doing her medical/technical thing. And there, I *am* inclined to blame the writers for not fairly treating the male and female scientists. I just don't really see it as evidence that Keller *doesn't* do those things off-camera -- any more than I'm inclined to see the omissions and failings in Carson's scenes as signs of genuine incompetence or lack of medical skill on his part. (Though, as noted in some of my other comments, I do think Carson's best areas were his research skills, not his clinical-medical skills. He wasn't a bad or uncaring doctor; I just don't get the idea that surgery was something he specialized in, and I sometimes felt -- though maybe this is more personal fanon than canon -- that he'd preferred to be a microscope rather than treating patients.)

(Or maybe it would've had more Zelenka or something, considering we see Carson doing bloody all nothing to save Rodney in "Tao," save what Rodney asks for help with. Carson, you ass. Umm, where was I?)

*snicker* And, see, one of the reasons why I'm not quite on board with a lot of the criticism of Keller is because a lot of those criticisms could be just as easily leveled at Carson (e.g., this) but no one seems to be doing that -- or at least, no one is equating Keller's behavior with Carson's when they criticize her. The Carson in Tao thing, I think, is a really good example of that (which I hadn't thought of) because you don't even see Carson acting WORRIED until the final scene when Rodney's dying, and you certainly don't see him doing anything to help. But I don't take that to mean that he's larking around and doesn't care about Rodney. Presumably, he was going through the same process as the other characters (getting worried, trying to see what he can do to help); the show just didn't have time to show us while fitting everything else in.

(Though, as noted in some of my other comments, I do think Carson's best areas were his research skills, not his clinical-medical skills. He wasn't a bad or uncaring doctor; I just don't get the idea that surgery was something he specialized in, and I sometimes felt -- though maybe this is more personal fanon than canon -- that he'd preferred to be a microscope rather than treating patients.)

Heh. This is absolutely true. There's a reason that, when I wrote fanfiction in the first two seasons, I (and plenty of others) created fictional surgeons to do the actual medical stuff in the infirmary. I genuinely didn't think Carson was a surgeon. I bought he was a doctor, but the first time you see him perform any surgery (or even admit to having performed a surgery) is in Runner, when he works on Ronon's back. I distinctly remember thinking -- Oh! He can do that? Must rewrite the fanfiction about Carson....

No one who watched first season thought Carson was a surgeon, whereas Keller has been a surgeon right from the start. But she doesn't have Carson's, as you put it, mad "clinical" skills. It makes them two very different kinds of MDs.

I just realized that I wrote he'd prefer to be a microscope rather than work on patients. Surgery may not be his specialty, but I don't think he's that bad at it! Should have read "... behind a microscope"...! Ah well, you apparently knew what I meant.

It's nice to know it's not just me, then! And, to me, this does both give depth to the characters (both Carson and Keller) and differentiate them. Carson didn't want to be there, either -- he very emphatically didn't want to be there, and we know from "Intruder" that he didn't feel qualified. Yet no one seemed to take his statement of concern about his abilities at face value and assume that he genuinely wasn't qualified.

I genuinely didn't think Carson was a surgeon. I bought he was a doctor, but the first time you see him perform any surgery (or even admit to having performed a surgery) is in Runner, when he works on Ronon's back.

I'm wondering now if I actually picked this idea up from the show, or from your fanfic! But I agree -- he doesn't strike me as someone with a surgical specialty at all. I wonder if the problem is that we actually know more about medicine than the writers. *snicker* To them, "doctor" might be a one-size-fits-all position! But ... no ... as much bleedover as there is between different medical (and scientific) specialties on the show, I think they're pretty consistent with Keller being a surgeon and Carson being a researcher, though each of them (being Atlantis-level geniuses) is capable of doing the other job too.

Nah -- you didn't get it from us fanficcers. We were just following the show's canon, and Carson didn't really do anything medical, other than work on Ronon's back in Runner, until his third season (Phantoms and Sunday). He was basically the doctor whom we never saw actually doing any doctoring. But, again, perhaps, just in the way people are assuming Keller's clinical skills aren't as good as Carson's, but her medical skills are better, are simply because we've seen Keller in action numerous times but she hasn't shown off her clinical skills the way Carson got to in Poisoning the Well. Perhaps she needed a Poisoning the Well sort of episode...? (Except that was one of my least favorite eps of Season One...*ashamed*)

there, I *am* inclined to blame the writers for not fairly treating the male and female scientists.

Yeah, that's my issue. At least this season Keller's episodes have centered around her medical abilities (it bugged me that in Missing, Quarantine, and Trio, it didn't really matter that she was a doctor; with minimal script changes she could've been any blueshirt scientist. I'm happy that s5 they're structuring some of the plots around her medical abilities...though now I can sulk that they have to bring the romance into all her episodes, too, instead of more Jennifer-Teyla friendship or something. Dangit, show...!)

I just don't really see it as evidence that Keller *doesn't* do those things off-camera -- any more than I'm inclined to see the omissions and failings in Carson's scenes as signs of genuine incompetence or lack of medical skill on his part.

The evidence is mostly sins of omission - they put the spotlight on Carson's medical/scientific abilities more than they've put it on Keller's. It's harder to picture Keller doing her doctorly thing off-camera when we don't see her doing it as much on-camera.

He wasn't a bad or uncaring doctor; I just don't get the idea that surgery was something he specialized in,

I've seen the argument that Keller's a better surgeon than Carson, and I have to admit that one leaves me scratching my head. Keller's brain surgery on Elizabeth in "Adrift" doesn't save her; "Missing", "Trio", and "Tracker" (on the girl) she does basic field medicine (badly, according to our EMT acquaintance XP - but that's being petty because Carson's medicine is just as bad, and same friend was impressed with "Adrift); "Search & Rescue" she operates on John for, um, something; "The Shrine" she does trepanning but doesn't get to really show off her skills. (Also possibly whatever the heck she does to Teyla in "The Queen".) With Carson, he operates in the dark with flashlights in "The Long Goodbye"; keeps Lt. Keegan alive in "Phantoms" in the field after telling John that Keegan needs complicated surgery and he doesn't have the equipment; and removes an exploding tumor without making it explode in "Sunday". I don't think there's proof she's worse than Carson, but I don't see evidence that she's any better, either.

I don't like Carson any more than Keller these days, to be honest, but what it's coming down to for me, with Carson & Keller, is that the show's never provided evidence that Keller is better at any aspect of doctoring than Carson (she might be, but it's never given positive proof) - and there are areas that Carson is clearly better than her - genetic research; having the ATA gene and years more experience as a doctor. They could have given her a different skill set from Carson - such as off-world ability, or some other scientific specialty - but they didn't. And I'm honestly not sure why, because I can't think of any show that loses a character and the replacement character is less capable. Sometimes, like Ronon replacing Ford, they're an obviously upgraded model - or else, as with Elizabeth to Carter to Woolsey, they go with a completely different type of character. But Keller shares Carson's flaws without equivalent professional strengths, and it leaves me with the (possibly overreacting, but) itchy uncomfortable feeling that the writers are seeing her major "strength" as her ability to provide romantic subplots.

Hmm true. Given how fast it progressed it probably was only a day or two (I think I got confused by the different timelines).

I think 'pissed off' was a little strong (my bad) but this is the main thing: someone pointed out up-thread that Rodney is hyper-vigilant when it comes to his health, so while he thinks of medicine as "voodoo" I think if it'd been Carson who missed the early warning signs, Rodney would've thought he was falling down on the job. Yes, his friends missed it too - but the writers put the spotlight on Keller because they didn't show us *what* John and the others missed, or how different he was behaving around them. Maybe if we'd seen a snippet of them in the mess or something we'd be laying into the others just as much. I just think the difference here is that it's Jennifer's job to watch out for things like that. We have plenty of canon examples where the doctors have missed small behavioral changes that came back to bite them later (The Siege 3; Conversion; Submersion; Duet) and that could make the argument for either side i.e. "Carson might've missed it too" vs. "the pattern of incidents should make her aware of the possibility".
Although saying that, Carson knew him a lot longer so it's an unfair comparison.

IDK I like Jennifer but that flirty scene made me uncomfortable - I think because she hadn't discharged him yet so it struck me as a little unprofessional. Yes, he started it, but she could've told him to save it for when she was off-the-clock (in a smiley, flirty, diplomatic way). She knew she was bending the rules, too, because she commented that she's not supposed to eat off of patients' trays. To me, it's another example of the writers' hinky grasp of ethics (*cough Whispers cough*) reflecting badly on the characters.

Well, in fairness to Keller, whenever a couple of people are starting to get infatuated with each other, they very often both start behaving differently -- more solicitously, laughing more at each others' jokes, not in order to shape themselves to someone else's desires but because they've got a crush, they're excited about this person, about the possibilities, and so on. It would have struck me as strange for Rodney not to start being nicer to Keller and behaving slightly differently when he started falling for her.

Well, that's the thing -- when did he start falling for her? It wasn't in that hospital bed. By his own account he'd felt something for her for a while. We don't know how much time he'd been spending with Keller prior to The Shrine, but the argument can be made that his behavioral change was rather abrupt, possibly from the first moment he woke up, and quite a departure from his usual personality. We don't know because the show didn't tell us. No, it's not entirely Keller's fault; she was taken in by sweet!Rodney. Who wouldn't be?

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SGA: An Essay on Keller

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