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SGA: An Essay on Keller
This wasn't meant to be quite so long, it kinda got away from me. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
xparrot and I have been spending a lot of far too much time discussing one of our growing frustrations with SGA: the character of Keller. Finally, enough was enough, and I realized I just had to get it all down on paper, to get it out of my system, if nothing else. And thus, this monstrosity was born:
A Question of Motivation
First off, I want to be clear: this isn't meant as character bashing. It's a question, a fundamental issue with the character that's been bothering me more and more.
Also important to establish right off the bat: I was never a particularly big Carson fan. I didn't dislike him, but he was in no way my favorite. I say this to make it clear that while yes, I was sorry to see him go, I wasn't heartbroken, and his loss didn't bias me against Keller. Just the reverse: when I first heard that Jewel Staite would be replacing him, I was ecstatic. I loved her in Firefly, enjoyed her portrayal of Kaylee-Wraith in "Instinct," and was enthusiastic to see what she would add to the Atlantis assemble. Sadly, while I continue to love the actress, I don't think the writers have delivered in terms of character.
That said, on to the question: What is Keller doing on Atlantis?
This is really a two-fold inquiry: Why did Atlantis/SGC/IOA bring her on board? and What was Keller's own motivation for going there? For all the other major (and many of the minor) characters, we can easily answer at least one of those two questions, and in many cases, both. But Keller?
I've seen several people cite her ordinariness and her lack of confidence as pluses. Something "normal", "believable" amidst a cast of "superheroes." In other shows, I might agree. But what place does "normal" have on Atlantis? As your Head of Medicine? At that young an age? In that prestigious, not to mention dangerous, a place? She better be damn special, better outshine them all. Because that's how you get and retain a position such as that. Atlantis is not a mundane place and neither are the people on it. Is Keller?
People argue that Keller is no worse off-world/in battle/outside of her standard duties, etc. than Carson or early Rodney. And I agree. She's no worse, but she's no better, either. And she *should* be. Why? No double standard, just a fundamental difference: Carson and Rodney both were on Atlantis from the beginning. That first year was different. They didn't even know if there would be other gates in Pegasus, or if they'd ever need to go off-world. Additionally, they were both *vital* to the mission. No one (except perhaps Carter, who couldn't be spared at the time) knew more about Ancient tech than Rodney, and Carson had the gene, the second strongest manifestation of it after John. Plus there was his research on the gene therapy. Weighed against these skills, their lack of experience in the field was moot.
Keller, on the other hand, joined the project late in the game. By the time she came, everyone knew what they were getting into. Medical personnel had been sent off-world multiple times, not to mention there were all the dangers on Atlantis itself. Back in "Intruder", when Carson is picking new staff, he's bemoaning the fact that all these people are more qualified than him, especially noting their physical prowess: "hobbies include judo, horseback riding and base-jumping". Totally reasonable. The SGC is looking to recruit civilians with varied skill sets, beyond their chosen field. People who will do well in *any* situation Pegasus can possibly throw at them. And Pegasus certainly pitches a lot of extreme ones. What are Keller's "extra" skills?
Then there's her age. Being SG, which is notoriously bad about giving characters' ages, we can't know for sure how old she is. In at least one case (David Hewlett) we know the character is meant to be the same age as the actor. If this holds true with Keller/Jewel, that puts her somewhere around twenty-six. *Maybe* they could bump that up to thirty, but even so, that's awfully young to be the head of anything, especially the Head of Medicine at an international, highly elite facility. Keller mentions skipping grades (which one would assume would be true of virtually everyone on Atlantis) but still, head positions are usually based not just on smarts, but *experience*. 'Quarantine' suggests she got her bachelor's at seventeen. Which means she might have gotten her MD by twenty, so she has six years' experience tops, including her internship. Every other position of authority on Atlantis has been filled by people in their mid-thirties or older.
Now, they might overlook Keller's lack of field experience/physical ability, not to mention her youth, if she had something else going for her. Something beyond 'competent doctor'. But so far we have never been given an example of any special skill, nothing that makes her "vital" or "unique" to the project. Yes, she's a good doctor, I'm not denying that. But there are a LOT of good doctors out there. What separates her from the crowd? Why did the SGC single her out? And not just for any position, but a position high in the command structure, later granting her Head Medical Officer of *Atlantis*?
Moving on to the second part of the question: Keller's own motivation.
When we first meet Keller, she's *begging* Elizabeth to find her a replacement, and Elizabeth denies her request. Leaving aside the question of *why* Elizabeth has faith in her , if Keller didn't want to be in charge, didn't feel she could handle it, why did she take the position? One that placed her one step away from being in command? In a place as dangerous and unpredictable as Atlantis, the odds that you're going to have to step up and replace your boss are *high*.
Personal ambition could explain it (like with Kavanagh, who is a much greater coward, but keeps returning regardless because his ego demands it. He believes, however misguided, that he's got the chops). But Keller wants *out* of command, eager to give it away. The very opposite of ambition.
Carson, beyond the needs of his gene, comes because of his research. He states in "Hide and Seek" that the ATA gene therapy couldn't be tested back on Earth, too many regulations. He's come to Pegasus to play mad scientist. But we haven't seen Keller really engage in research, beyond what she did in "Kindred" and "The Seed", which was borne not of personal interest but a desperate need to save Carson and the Athosians, and which was entirely based on Michael's and Carson's previous research.
Doctor Porter, in "Whispers", states she's interested in adventure, exploring, meeting strange new people. Considering Keller's reactions in "Missing" and "Trio", adventure and exploration are the furthest thing from her mind.
Conversely, she's been given several reasons to stay back on earth. Besides her seeming lack of love for danger/adventure/physical exertion, all things she should have expected to face on Atlantis, she mentions her father back in "Missing". She's "all he's got left." Why take a position as far from home as you can *ever*, in any realm of the imagination, get? One in which the odds of coming back from aren't so hot. You'd need some pretty hefty motivation to overcome that. We've never gotten even a hint.
She first tells Elizabeth she hopes the IOA will make a quick decision, she'd like to go back to being "a regular doctor." You can *never* be a regular doctor as the head of medicine on Atlantis. Circumstances won't allow it. What made her want to stay after the grand FUBAR that was "Adrift"/"Lifeline"? What made her want to go in the first place? She's certainly not military, she wasn't assigned there. Atlantis, canonically, has a very rigorous application process. Why struggle through it when you can be a regular doctor in the comfort and safety of your own galaxy?
The reason these questions matter so much to me, besides the obvious fan-urge of "I need to know," is that a character's goals, their motivations and passions, are how I form emotional attachments to them and thus to the show.
Teyla leaves her people for her people. She feels Atlantis is her people's best hope of salvation. She will do *anything* for them, and when she loses them? You can empathize, fully support her drive to find them, cheer when she's reunited, because they are her passion, her focus.
Ronon will keep fighting until "every Wraith in the galaxy is dead". When he's forced to work with them, when they get the better of him, you wince for him, you understand his anger and frustration, and you cheer when he turns the situation back around, kicks some Wraith ass, because you *know* how damn satisfied it's making him.
Rodney's passion, his life, his reason d'etre, is his science, his intelligence, his hope of a Nobel. Every brilliant break-through, every discovery, you know he's a bit closer to that goal. And when it fails him, when his smarts betray him (Trinity), it *hurts*, and the audience sighs/whimpers/writes copious amounts of tag fic.
John never really wanted to come to Atlantis in the first place, had to be talked into it, in face of resentment from his CEO. But he overcame that, made a home there, a family, people he will do *anything* for. His team, his 'family' is John's motivation. And every time he goes batshit crazy determined to help/save them, we cheer (or squee) over his loyalty, his dedication, his ability to protect what he loves.
Their traits, their passions and goals are defined and focused. A clear path for the characters to walk on, for the writers to build upon, for the fans to latch onto. What is Keller's drive, what is her character's destination? What are her obstacles and pitfalls along the way?
Her ambitions are murky and her flaws? Superfluous. Her lack of confidence, which comes and goes, could make for a character arc, except she never has to overcome it.
Professionally, she's told over and over she's doing a great job and never once has she had to face consequences for her fuck-ups. Using the nanites on Elizabeth was originally her idea, but Rodney takes all the heat for it. It's ironic that the decision Elizabeth so loathed started with the person she had such faith in, an irony that's never once touched upon. In "The Shrine", *Keller* blames herself for missing what happened to Rodney, and as his doctor, she's right. It's her fault she didn't diagnose it sooner. But no one else accuses her. On the contrary, they reassure her. Every other character on the show has had their actions questioned, doubted. Argued against. Forced to prove they're correct, or give in in the face of irrefutable fact. Most of them have had their jobs directly on the line, the IOA demanding justification.
In "The Shrine", there's disagreement, but they never outright state they think Keller's wrong, that she won't cure him. They imply it, considering their one want is the chance to say goodbye, meaning they've given up on her finding a cure, but they don't accuse her directly. When tensions run high, the characters often turn the professional personal. "Hot Zone" (John and Elizabeth), "Trinity" (John and Rodney, Teyla and Ronon), "Adrift" (John and Rodney). They get angry with each other. But in "The Shrine", no one gets angry at Keller for refusing them, just frustrated at the situation. Jeannie is the only one who can resist the Keller-love enough to directly point out her failing, that she's no closer to a solution.
Which brings us to her social "flaws". She tells Ronon it's "the story of my life", never fitting in. But she's been accepted into the inner circle of Atlantis faster and closer than any other character except Jeannie (and she's Rodney's family.) By "Doppelganger", only her third ep, Keller's already eating lunch all chummily with the team, in a way that we never saw even Carson or Elizabeth doing, let alone Zelenka, Lorne, Heightmeyer, etc. Ronon, who hasn't felt ready to be with anyone in nine years, starts expressing interest. Teyla's ready to open up to her about her personal life. Keller's feeling comfortable enough to tease Rodney about his hypochondria by "Tabula Rasa". Her interaction with Carson in "Kindred II" suggests a fairly close relationship with him before he died. She doesn't have to struggle with being accepted; they all love her and welcome her into the group immediately.
Comparatively, Sam, who already had personal connections with Rodney, never gets that close. It takes until "Kindred" for her to feel comfortable enough to invite Teyla to address her by her first name.
So much of Keller, her strengths and her weaknesses, her confidence and her competence, her social awkwardness and familiarity with the main cast, vary wildly from episode to episode. I believe most of this stems from the lack of direction. She has no clear problem to overcome, no obvious goal to strive for, no dream to fulfill, no passion to indulge in. Every writer, in every individual script, has to answer that question anew, instead of having it clearly before them. Here her purpose is as love interest, there it’s being a doctor. Here it suits the plot for her to be meek, there flirtatious is the key. It makes for screenwriter schizophrenia to the extreme, the cure for which, at least in part, would have been to answer, at the character's conception: What is she *doing* here, and why does she stay?
xparrot and I have been spending A Question of Motivation
First off, I want to be clear: this isn't meant as character bashing. It's a question, a fundamental issue with the character that's been bothering me more and more.
Also important to establish right off the bat: I was never a particularly big Carson fan. I didn't dislike him, but he was in no way my favorite. I say this to make it clear that while yes, I was sorry to see him go, I wasn't heartbroken, and his loss didn't bias me against Keller. Just the reverse: when I first heard that Jewel Staite would be replacing him, I was ecstatic. I loved her in Firefly, enjoyed her portrayal of Kaylee-Wraith in "Instinct," and was enthusiastic to see what she would add to the Atlantis assemble. Sadly, while I continue to love the actress, I don't think the writers have delivered in terms of character.
That said, on to the question: What is Keller doing on Atlantis?
This is really a two-fold inquiry: Why did Atlantis/SGC/IOA bring her on board? and What was Keller's own motivation for going there? For all the other major (and many of the minor) characters, we can easily answer at least one of those two questions, and in many cases, both. But Keller?
I've seen several people cite her ordinariness and her lack of confidence as pluses. Something "normal", "believable" amidst a cast of "superheroes." In other shows, I might agree. But what place does "normal" have on Atlantis? As your Head of Medicine? At that young an age? In that prestigious, not to mention dangerous, a place? She better be damn special, better outshine them all. Because that's how you get and retain a position such as that. Atlantis is not a mundane place and neither are the people on it. Is Keller?
People argue that Keller is no worse off-world/in battle/outside of her standard duties, etc. than Carson or early Rodney. And I agree. She's no worse, but she's no better, either. And she *should* be. Why? No double standard, just a fundamental difference: Carson and Rodney both were on Atlantis from the beginning. That first year was different. They didn't even know if there would be other gates in Pegasus, or if they'd ever need to go off-world. Additionally, they were both *vital* to the mission. No one (except perhaps Carter, who couldn't be spared at the time) knew more about Ancient tech than Rodney, and Carson had the gene, the second strongest manifestation of it after John. Plus there was his research on the gene therapy. Weighed against these skills, their lack of experience in the field was moot.
Keller, on the other hand, joined the project late in the game. By the time she came, everyone knew what they were getting into. Medical personnel had been sent off-world multiple times, not to mention there were all the dangers on Atlantis itself. Back in "Intruder", when Carson is picking new staff, he's bemoaning the fact that all these people are more qualified than him, especially noting their physical prowess: "hobbies include judo, horseback riding and base-jumping". Totally reasonable. The SGC is looking to recruit civilians with varied skill sets, beyond their chosen field. People who will do well in *any* situation Pegasus can possibly throw at them. And Pegasus certainly pitches a lot of extreme ones. What are Keller's "extra" skills?
Then there's her age. Being SG, which is notoriously bad about giving characters' ages, we can't know for sure how old she is. In at least one case (David Hewlett) we know the character is meant to be the same age as the actor. If this holds true with Keller/Jewel, that puts her somewhere around twenty-six. *Maybe* they could bump that up to thirty, but even so, that's awfully young to be the head of anything, especially the Head of Medicine at an international, highly elite facility. Keller mentions skipping grades (which one would assume would be true of virtually everyone on Atlantis) but still, head positions are usually based not just on smarts, but *experience*. 'Quarantine' suggests she got her bachelor's at seventeen. Which means she might have gotten her MD by twenty, so she has six years' experience tops, including her internship. Every other position of authority on Atlantis has been filled by people in their mid-thirties or older.
Now, they might overlook Keller's lack of field experience/physical ability, not to mention her youth, if she had something else going for her. Something beyond 'competent doctor'. But so far we have never been given an example of any special skill, nothing that makes her "vital" or "unique" to the project. Yes, she's a good doctor, I'm not denying that. But there are a LOT of good doctors out there. What separates her from the crowd? Why did the SGC single her out? And not just for any position, but a position high in the command structure, later granting her Head Medical Officer of *Atlantis*?
Moving on to the second part of the question: Keller's own motivation.
When we first meet Keller, she's *begging* Elizabeth to find her a replacement, and Elizabeth denies her request. Leaving aside the question of *why* Elizabeth has faith in her , if Keller didn't want to be in charge, didn't feel she could handle it, why did she take the position? One that placed her one step away from being in command? In a place as dangerous and unpredictable as Atlantis, the odds that you're going to have to step up and replace your boss are *high*.
Personal ambition could explain it (like with Kavanagh, who is a much greater coward, but keeps returning regardless because his ego demands it. He believes, however misguided, that he's got the chops). But Keller wants *out* of command, eager to give it away. The very opposite of ambition.
Carson, beyond the needs of his gene, comes because of his research. He states in "Hide and Seek" that the ATA gene therapy couldn't be tested back on Earth, too many regulations. He's come to Pegasus to play mad scientist. But we haven't seen Keller really engage in research, beyond what she did in "Kindred" and "The Seed", which was borne not of personal interest but a desperate need to save Carson and the Athosians, and which was entirely based on Michael's and Carson's previous research.
Doctor Porter, in "Whispers", states she's interested in adventure, exploring, meeting strange new people. Considering Keller's reactions in "Missing" and "Trio", adventure and exploration are the furthest thing from her mind.
Conversely, she's been given several reasons to stay back on earth. Besides her seeming lack of love for danger/adventure/physical exertion, all things she should have expected to face on Atlantis, she mentions her father back in "Missing". She's "all he's got left." Why take a position as far from home as you can *ever*, in any realm of the imagination, get? One in which the odds of coming back from aren't so hot. You'd need some pretty hefty motivation to overcome that. We've never gotten even a hint.
She first tells Elizabeth she hopes the IOA will make a quick decision, she'd like to go back to being "a regular doctor." You can *never* be a regular doctor as the head of medicine on Atlantis. Circumstances won't allow it. What made her want to stay after the grand FUBAR that was "Adrift"/"Lifeline"? What made her want to go in the first place? She's certainly not military, she wasn't assigned there. Atlantis, canonically, has a very rigorous application process. Why struggle through it when you can be a regular doctor in the comfort and safety of your own galaxy?
The reason these questions matter so much to me, besides the obvious fan-urge of "I need to know," is that a character's goals, their motivations and passions, are how I form emotional attachments to them and thus to the show.
Teyla leaves her people for her people. She feels Atlantis is her people's best hope of salvation. She will do *anything* for them, and when she loses them? You can empathize, fully support her drive to find them, cheer when she's reunited, because they are her passion, her focus.
Ronon will keep fighting until "every Wraith in the galaxy is dead". When he's forced to work with them, when they get the better of him, you wince for him, you understand his anger and frustration, and you cheer when he turns the situation back around, kicks some Wraith ass, because you *know* how damn satisfied it's making him.
Rodney's passion, his life, his reason d'etre, is his science, his intelligence, his hope of a Nobel. Every brilliant break-through, every discovery, you know he's a bit closer to that goal. And when it fails him, when his smarts betray him (Trinity), it *hurts*, and the audience sighs/whimpers/writes copious amounts of tag fic.
John never really wanted to come to Atlantis in the first place, had to be talked into it, in face of resentment from his CEO. But he overcame that, made a home there, a family, people he will do *anything* for. His team, his 'family' is John's motivation. And every time he goes batshit crazy determined to help/save them, we cheer (or squee) over his loyalty, his dedication, his ability to protect what he loves.
Their traits, their passions and goals are defined and focused. A clear path for the characters to walk on, for the writers to build upon, for the fans to latch onto. What is Keller's drive, what is her character's destination? What are her obstacles and pitfalls along the way?
Her ambitions are murky and her flaws? Superfluous. Her lack of confidence, which comes and goes, could make for a character arc, except she never has to overcome it.
Professionally, she's told over and over she's doing a great job and never once has she had to face consequences for her fuck-ups. Using the nanites on Elizabeth was originally her idea, but Rodney takes all the heat for it. It's ironic that the decision Elizabeth so loathed started with the person she had such faith in, an irony that's never once touched upon. In "The Shrine", *Keller* blames herself for missing what happened to Rodney, and as his doctor, she's right. It's her fault she didn't diagnose it sooner. But no one else accuses her. On the contrary, they reassure her. Every other character on the show has had their actions questioned, doubted. Argued against. Forced to prove they're correct, or give in in the face of irrefutable fact. Most of them have had their jobs directly on the line, the IOA demanding justification.
In "The Shrine", there's disagreement, but they never outright state they think Keller's wrong, that she won't cure him. They imply it, considering their one want is the chance to say goodbye, meaning they've given up on her finding a cure, but they don't accuse her directly. When tensions run high, the characters often turn the professional personal. "Hot Zone" (John and Elizabeth), "Trinity" (John and Rodney, Teyla and Ronon), "Adrift" (John and Rodney). They get angry with each other. But in "The Shrine", no one gets angry at Keller for refusing them, just frustrated at the situation. Jeannie is the only one who can resist the Keller-love enough to directly point out her failing, that she's no closer to a solution.
Which brings us to her social "flaws". She tells Ronon it's "the story of my life", never fitting in. But she's been accepted into the inner circle of Atlantis faster and closer than any other character except Jeannie (and she's Rodney's family.) By "Doppelganger", only her third ep, Keller's already eating lunch all chummily with the team, in a way that we never saw even Carson or Elizabeth doing, let alone Zelenka, Lorne, Heightmeyer, etc. Ronon, who hasn't felt ready to be with anyone in nine years, starts expressing interest. Teyla's ready to open up to her about her personal life. Keller's feeling comfortable enough to tease Rodney about his hypochondria by "Tabula Rasa". Her interaction with Carson in "Kindred II" suggests a fairly close relationship with him before he died. She doesn't have to struggle with being accepted; they all love her and welcome her into the group immediately.
Comparatively, Sam, who already had personal connections with Rodney, never gets that close. It takes until "Kindred" for her to feel comfortable enough to invite Teyla to address her by her first name.
So much of Keller, her strengths and her weaknesses, her confidence and her competence, her social awkwardness and familiarity with the main cast, vary wildly from episode to episode. I believe most of this stems from the lack of direction. She has no clear problem to overcome, no obvious goal to strive for, no dream to fulfill, no passion to indulge in. Every writer, in every individual script, has to answer that question anew, instead of having it clearly before them. Here her purpose is as love interest, there it’s being a doctor. Here it suits the plot for her to be meek, there flirtatious is the key. It makes for screenwriter schizophrenia to the extreme, the cure for which, at least in part, would have been to answer, at the character's conception: What is she *doing* here, and why does she stay?
And part three cause he's just that awesome!
"Doppelganger": You'll probably protest this one, but it really seems it's his idea to shock it in the end. He has the 'send me back in" and then we don't know who actually realized it. But considering how confidently Rodney is shouting that it's vulnerable to electric shock, it's a pretty good bet its his own plan.
"Tabula Rasa": His quick thinking to video himself and leave a message to find Teyla is what ultimately saves them in the end.
"The Seer": He realizes Todd is holding back on the code, not playing it straight.
"This Mortal Coil": His replicated self, first to realize somethings wrong/get suspicious. He's able to figure out how to program the device to locate all the replicator ships.
"BAMSR": Entirely, 100% his plan on how to get rid of the replicators.
"Spoils of War": figures out there's a secret base. (with Ronon's accidental help)
"Harmony": Fixes the mini-drone device under extreme pressure/extreme circumstances.
"Midway": Figures out the gate bridge has been tampered with, reprograms it yet again.
"The Last Man": Oh, you know, just INVENTS A NEW MATH AN SAVES THE ENTIRE GALAXY. When everyone else gives up. We don't see what Zelenka does. Jeannie doesn't think it can be done. Rodney does it anyways.
"Daedalus Variations": Figures out how to undo what even other Rodney's couldn't do. Sorta working on a suggestion from John...but it's more of a random comment. Also, in another universe, invented the device to begin with. Flawed, perhaps, but still brilliant.
"Tracker": Fixes an entirely alien device, not even ancient, while walking and avoiding Wraith, in a few minutes.
And this doesn't include some of the times that yes, other people have ideas. But he still is the one to implement them. Yeah, I can have the idea to build a cool looking plane. Doesn't mean I can DO it. He can make 'real' ideas that would be just cool theories to most other people.
Re: And part three cause he's just that awesome!
Whereas elsewhere, you refuse to give Keller credit for implementing a solution if anyone else had a hand in it. Keller fixed Carson's fatal illness AND came up with a solution to the Wraith problem that even the Ancients hadn't been able to think of. But you won't credit those as brilliant ideas because somewhere along the way, she relied on other people's research.
... Well, yes. That's what scientists DO. That's what all the characters do on this show; it's pretty rare for one person to save the day singlehandedly. So let's look at just a few of your examples above. "38 Minutes" - Rodney didn't come up with the solution that saved the day; Kavanagh did. None of Rodney's ideas went anywhere. Nor did Rodney implement the solution that saved them. "Storm/Eye" - Zelenka, Elizabeth and John all helped Rodney in the beginning, and his "plan" was mostly a stalling tactic to give JOHN time to get to the control room. "Hot Zone" - Rodney and Carson were working together on that one. Would Rodney have had a breakthrough without leaning on Carson and Biro's medical/autopsy expertise? I really don't see it. "Duet" - even Rodney admitted that he was largely working off Zelenka's efforts. "Phantoms" - Rodney started fixing the device, but he never finished. Teyla had to finish it. "First Strike" - as you yourself pointed out, his AND JOHN's plan, not Rodney being singlehandedly brilliant. "Last Man" - Rodney had help from Jeannie. Tabula Rasa ... I'm kind of boggling at this ...
"Tabula Rasa": His quick thinking to video himself and leave a message to find Teyla is what ultimately saves them in the end.
You won't give Keller credit for saving the day in "Seed" or "Shrine" because she didn't do every last bit of it by herself -- but you give RODNEY credit for saving the day in Tabula Rasa by recording a message?! He wasn't the one who did the medical work (Keller), wasn't the one who came up with the idea (partly Ronon, mostly Keller), wasn't the one who implemented the idea (Ronon and Teyla); we don't even know for sure if leaving the message was Rodney's idea in the first place! Using the same logic that you've been using elsewhere on Keller, it could EASILY have been John or Keller or Teyla or Ronon who suggested to Rodney the whole idea of leaving a message when things started going bad. We never SAW that part.
I'm not going to go down the whole list because I'd be here all day, but I have similar counter-examples for most of these. Rodney worked off someone else's research, or he implemented someone else's idea, or he worked in tandem with someone else to accomplish the plan. That's because that's the norm on this show (and more believable, too) -- TEAMWORK generally saves the day, whether between the teammates or between the various medical and scientific characters on the show. Yet, with Keller, any hint that she's not doing it all by herself is enough to invalidate her intelligence or expertise in the episode. I'm not saying Rodney doesn't deserve credit for many of the things he's done -- just that if you apply the same standards to Rodney AND Keller, either Keller comes off looking a lot more brilliant, or Rodney comes off looking much worse.
Yeah, I can have the idea to build a cool looking plane. Doesn't mean I can DO it. He can make 'real' ideas that would be just cool theories to most other people.
Like, say ... doing surgery in a cave with hand tools? Does this mean that you're conceding Keller's surgical brilliance in being able to implement John's crazy plan in "Shrine"? Excellent! :)
Part one of my reply to your reply to horridp--OMG AHHH! ^_-
Okay, you,
McKAY: Michael's database! There's a large chunk of it, maybe the whole thing too. I mean, we've got base schematics, medical research information, list of planets. You know what this means? --Gateworld transcripts
It wasn't the case that Michael was working towards solutions and Keller completed his research. Yes, if that were the case, power to her, then. I'll totally bow to her brilliance. But that's not the case. It was finished, it was tested, and it was PROVED TO WORK, before Keller ever, once, got even a hint that it existed.
Michael had Carson alive for almost two years. His cells did not begin to degrade until he stopped receiving Michael's formula. Because Michael had a viable, completed, working solution to that problem. Keller had to go through Michael's research to find the solution, and then follow the recipe and cook it up. How is that her success? She seems hesitant to test it on Carson, makes sense. She can't be 100% sure she got the right formula out of Michael's data base. I'm sure he had to go through plenty of variations and research and testing before he hit on the right one. Yes, so if her Wraith is a bit shoddy, or Michael's data was in code or whatever, she might have nicked the wrong formula. Wanting to be sure she's not using the wrong thing, total sense. Creating something brilliant with a "bit of help"? I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Give me a case on my list of Rodney's solutions that someone else did every single step, and he just flicked the switch at the end.
Actually, you'll probably say that about "38 minutes". You said Rodney didn't even help with implementing the solution...except somehow the drive pods got retracted. Which was Zelenka and Rodney working together. Kavanagh's only contribution is the suggestion to open the hatch to give them some forward momentum. (which, and
Keller's amazing solution, that the Ancients hadn't even thought of (why not, does beg the question, oh silly Ancients) but um.... :
MICHAEL: I'll admit, my early attempts were a little ... crude, but that's all changed now. I've refined the retrovirus to create the perfect balance – ability well beyond any normal human but without the one weakness that will be the downfall of the Wraith.
(He lifts his right hand and holds it up, showing her his palm. It no longer has a feeding slit on it.)
MICHAEL: The need to feed.
No longer has the slit. As in, this research is done, complete, finito. That's in "Kindred". Keller hasn't been working on it yet at all. All of it is done for her. She is not finishing what Michael started (Michael was finishing what Carson started. Excuse me, Michael FINISHED what Carson started). What did Keller have left to do on it. Again, sift through Michael's data.
(TBC)
Re: Part one of my reply to your reply to horridp--OMG AHHH! ^_-
It's Rodney's idea to begin with. He clearly has most of what he needs to do envisioned when he's talking to the dying Keller cause he knows he's gonna be inventing a new math. The one shot of Jeannie we see is when Rodney is still quite young. And he out right says, she gave up on him. He kept toiling, alone. Figuring out, alone. So an idea from him that what his from conception to close, that Jeannie maybe corrected his math on for a few years before giving up on him is the equivalent of Keller being presented with a finished solution, one that she knows for a fact works (Teyla SAW Michael's finished, completed work. She not working on a hope, like Rodney does, a hope that everyone else, even his own brilliant sister eventually insists is impossible and gives up on him.) and tweaking it a bit. With the help of other scientists, because Carson mentions another scientist (Dr. Lynch.and his team) that he's giving his research on Michael's subjects' to in "Whispers."
He wasn't the one who did the medical work (Keller), wasn't the one who came up with the idea (possibly Ronon), wasn't the one who implemented the idea (Ronon and Teyla);
I actually wasn't meaning to say Rodney was the only one who saved the day there. (Though he DID help, he's the one who came up with and implemented a way to disperse the cure). I was trying to list *his* actions in the ep. When I used "ultimately", which, yeah, neechan scolded me, I totally used it wrong, what I was trying to say was that everyone each contributed, but in the end, the way the episode is shot, the story unfolds, its the tablet with the "find this woman" that carries the plot forward throughout. But I concede to you completely: a total teamwork ep, each person having their brilliant moment. Though, and I know you'll jump on me about my anti-Keller bias, but if you say Keller was the one with the *idea* about the disease, you undermine Ronon's awesomeness. He's the one that notes the inconsistency, that it's only the Pegasus natives not getting sick. He's the one that brings it to her attention, twice. Then she takes his suggestions, finds the exact disease. Medical skills in analyzing the blood quickly, yes, but the creativity goes to Ronon on this one, I think.
Does this mean that you're conceding Keller's surgical brilliance in being able to implement John's crazy plan in "Shrine"?
Yes, I'll concede. But only half-way. *If* she had done the whole surgery, completed it successfully? 100% the same. And I wish the writers had let her do it. But instead, she drills one(or two, it's hard to tell) holes and that's it. No diggin' in the gray matter, no careful removal, no skilled surgery techniques, just a steady hand. The parasite crawls out on its own. Humans have been performing and surviving drilled holes in the skull (trepanning) for thousands of years. With nothing so precise as a power drill or other sterilized medical tools. Complicated brain surgery, does require a LOT of skill. But the writers don't let her demonstrate that skill, they cut off her moment of glory.
Closest equivalent example I can come up with is Rodney in "Siege II", using the chair to fly the jumper. Yes, Rodney doesn't do that all on his own, just as Jeannie has to modify the scanner and John has to tell Keller to use the drill and the scanner, etc. Rodney, along with Zelenka's help (like Keller needs an assistant, John, to help her with the drilling) *seems* to get the chair to work. We're not 100% sure it's gonna be a success. In theory looks good, but there are a lot of things that could go wrong. Just like in theory, Keller can perform that surgery, but we're not positive she's gonna succeed. *She's* not sure. The chair's generator loses power, so Rodney's idea never gets proven one way or another. John and the Daedalus have to step in. The parasite crawls out of Rodney's head, running from the radiation, so we're never given proof that she *was* capable of performing that surgery. *Maybe* she could have, maybe not. Maybe the chair/jumper would have worked and no suicide run needed, maybe not. We. Don't. Know. In either case. Not a be-all display for either of them.
(TBC...sorta?)
Re: Part three...Lists...
You're right. Totally. And I love the teaminess. I agree, I wasn't being fair to Keller on that front.
just that if you apply the same standards to Rodney AND Keller, either Keller comes off looking a lot more brilliant, or Rodney comes off looking much worse.
So what I want to do, and I'd love for you, and the others to jump in as well, on either one, is to compile a list, like what I did with Rodney earlier, for both of them (just looking at 4th/5th season for Rodney, cause Keller came in then, so it's only fair). I want all the "brilliant" moments, the "unique" they've accomplished, other-inspired/shared/etc. or not. 100% concrete moments, not supposition. What they gives us/SHOWS us.
But, and here's the thing I know you'll all protest: I don't want the list to include any skill that any competent ER doctor/surgeon would be expected to perform. Likewise, for Rodney, nothing any random computer wiz/hacker/utilities man could perform. Because that's the thing that
While making my list, I am gonna try my damnedest not to be biased, either way. I really, really REALLY am. Stop me, correct me, if I fail at that.
Re: Part three...Lists...
All that this debate is doing for me so far is making me sad and frustrated and, worse, making me kinda dislike Rodney. *g* There's nothing like vehemently having one character's virtues praised over another to make me resent the popular character, and I was already getting to that point with the McShep vs. Rodney/Keller factions. The active anti-Keller sentiment among John/Rodney shippers over the last couple of weeks has honestly gotten me to the point where, right now, I wouldn't touch a McShep fic with a ten-foot pole. (I actually tried reading one last night. I had to skip over the John/Rodney scenes and eventually gave up.) What your pro-Rodney list is mainly doing for me right now is starting to convince me that the anti-Rodney crowd is right, that Gero et all really *do* write him as a gigantic self-insert, and I'm starting to see why the anti-Rodney people are so frustrated by his large role in the show. I don't want to end up hating Rodney, and I'm starting to feel like I'm sliding down that road. I'm not convincing you, you're not convincing me, and this is leaving me angry and disillusioned with the rampant partisanship of fandom. The last thing I want to do is find myself an unwilling participant in a ship-war. So I think this is a good time for me to disengage.
Re: Part three...Lists...
Truthfully, I *do* think he is in many ways a self-insert, or at least the one they most identify with/most want to be. But because they're all huge, 12 year old nerds, they're flaws, their adorable "guy" behavior you were writing about in your post and their random cute friendshippie bits also find their way into the character.
If a woman/group of women was/were writing Keller as their insert character, I honestly feel she'd be a lot different. And I think I'd connect with her a lot more.
But that's just me. *shrug*
*huggles* Really sorry this has got you down :( Don't worry, I'll stick completely to squee with you from now on! ^_^ (New ep tomorrow...wheeeee!!)
Re: Part three...Lists...
I just feel like we're going in circles here. You're totally entitled to your opinion, I don't resent you having it, but I'm REALLY not feeling like being argued around to character-hate (either on the one you're trying with, or the one that it's happening as a side effect *g*). And I don't want to end up hating the characters AND the fandom!
Re: Part three...Lists...
Ask neechan...I've had the majority of this post written since "Whispers". I hedged and hawed, back and forth about posting it. But she and I just couldn't get past talking and talking, in endless circles ourselves and I hoped this would get it out of my system.
And now...I really don't know. Part of me has enjoyed the discussion, and you guys *have* shown me places where I think I was being too biased. But other parts...yeah, now I'm seeing *all* the characters in a more negative light...and that...in our last season *sniffle* yeah. Not so good. *sigh*
*huggles*
And this time I mean it, really am going to bed. Reeeally ^_-
Re: Part three...Lists...
Re: Part three...Lists...
Re: Part one of my reply to your reply to horridp--OMG AHHH! ^_-
McKAY: It is this recent discovery of the essential duality of this particular stem of the nano sub-code that has opened up a whole new world of possibilities when it comes to the expedient and permanent deactivation of the inter-nanite bonds.
Rodney has the code that runs the Replicators. The Ancients wrote it. All he had to do was use it. There's no "brilliance" in BAMSR at all, just Rodney running a computer program that was written thousands of years ago.
But, you say! He had to figure out what he had and how to use it with the materials at hand! Well, that's what Keller had to do with Michael's research. If medicine were as easy as reading a list of instructions, we'd all be brain surgeons.
You are also making a huge assumption that the "medical research" in Michael's database contained explicit instructions for building the cure for Carson's ailment. NO ONE EVER SAID THAT. For all we know, all they got were bits and pieces of Michael's notes. Actually, that was the implication I'd gotten -- that they don't have every bit of research Michael ever did, all written up in neat detail. What they've got is a huge and fragmentary heap of notes that they're trying to sift through and adapt to work with their equipment and materials. And even having the formula for the cure is a HUGE step from being able to reverse-engineer a version of it that will work.
HOW was what Rodney did in BAMSR with the nanites different from what Keller did in Seed and Queen? He's still taking someone else's technology/breakthrough, trying to understand it and reverse-engineer his own version (with a lot of help from Zelenka, I might add). Why is BAMSR an example of Rodney's brilliance where Seed is not an example of Keller's? What's the difference?
Re: Part one of my reply to your reply to horridp--OMG AHHH! ^_-
Um...No. Keller has the genetic code of the Wraith. They've had it for a while. And if her solution came from that. Same thing.
has opened up a whole new world of possibilities
The Replicator code was never intended to be used in the way Rodney twists it. He takes one possibility, out of many, an exploits it to do something crazy. Like what CARSON did to the Wraith genetic code, modifying it in a way no one expected. Turning them human, and later leading to taking away the feeding mechanism.
Keller took Michael's/Carson's research, and exactly emulated it/copied it from his notes. If Michael had been trying for something else with the feeding. Maybe making them feed twice as fast, or feed with both hands, or from animals, whatever, that'd be one thing. She'd be altering his research, then. Taking it in a NEW, creative, brilliant direction. But she's NOT. She's looking for exactly the same end result that Michael already obtained.
And by Keller, I mean the medical staff. And by Rodney, I mean Rodney. WHY do I make this distinction? Because the SHOW does. When she's reporting to Woolsey, she uses 'we'. When she's presenting her plan to Todd, she uses 'we'. And, before you jump on me going "oh, but she's being all humble and modest", I offer, again, further concrete evidence from the show: Carson mentions giving his notes on Michael's lab, in "Whipsers" to Doctor Lynch(?) and his team. NOT to Keller. And, may I point out, that after six months out of the game, it's still Carson they ask along to come check out the lab and Michael's research, even though he's not part of Atlantis (seemingly) anymore, and he's on his way out the door. NOT KELLER.
And why do I say 'Rodney' in BAMSR. Does he get help perfecting and implementing his plan. From Zelenka, from Todd, from Fran? Certainly. But is the brilliant flash, the amazing, out of the box, out of the blue, not been done before, not based on anyone's already realized creations idea completely his. YES. No, this is not supposition. Because we SEE IT. He's running up against a wall, and then *boom*. We see the moment. He spins in his chair, *ding* lightbulb (and looks utterly adorable doing it). And others think he's crazy at first, and he has to convince them. No outside help there. And it's his idea to use the replicator module. And it's he who gets it working, finally. Alone. We know this, because Zelenka leaves the room. Are they not happy at first that he created Fran, yes? Does anything go wrong with that part of the plan? No. There are two minor hiccups, that first Fran, and then he and Sam together quickly solve it. The rest, HIM. And we see it.
And now bed...(oh god, it's 5:30 am...work tomorrow...Oops :-p), that list I mentioned, tomorrow...