Actually, the best part of the debate was that it never did devolve into mudslinging, at least the parts I was involved in - I'm friends with all the people I'm debating (and still am, I hope!), and we were careful on both sides to keep it from getting personal, and to cut it short the moment it seemed possible it might. As a social exercise, it was an invigorating friendly debate - as a fan, though, it was frustrating. I came out less squeeful a fan than I was going in, and that saddened me.
Which is to say - if you feel your squee starting to slip (or if you feel it already) I ask that you not read this - all you have to do is say you've had enough, and I will drop it immediately. (I'm not feeling as squee-harshed now because I'm discussing writing trends rather than characters, which is something I very much enjoy...even if it's a bit shooting fish in a barrel to critique SGA writers, god bless 'em; I love our big dumb show so very much, but 'dumb' is the key word...!)
I'm not a big Carson fan either - liked him okay as a supporting character; was bored to tears when he got a starring role. So I'd agree that Carson wasn't the best-developed either. But Carson actually did prove himself on several occasions - "Poisoning the Well," he does science that an entire planet couldn't figure out; in "Conversion" he's seen managing a whole room of doctors, but he's the one coming up with ideas. We've never seen Keller in competition with anyone in her field - the couple times she's worked with Carson, Carson comes out looking equal to her, if not better. (Carson also did original science projects, like giving the ATA gene to new people or fixing the Wraith - Keller has done science, but it's always been based on previous research, either Carson's or Michael's; she's yet to be shown trying to accomplish something new, only recreating previous research.) I'm not saying that Keller isn't capable of such genius - only that the show has never shown her doing it. If she is specially gifted, the writers are not emphasizing it, while they did with Carson on several occasions.
John's actually a slightly different sort of character - what's special about him is less his self and more his circumstances. He's forced into the position he has (by his gene and Sumner's demise and them being stranded the first year) and has to cope. And then the extremity of what he endures after that turns him into something special. It's another classic scifi trope, the unwilling hero. I *think* this might be what Keller's character is intended to be - except that storyline doesn't make sense for her character; there is nothing forcing her into her position, that we've been told. They set up John's character from the start; they make no such effort with Keller. If this were s1, I'd have less trouble with this aspect of Keller's character, because I could believe they don't have any other choice of a doctor in Pegasus. But it makes no sense for the current seasons, not when there's a million other doctors on Earth to choose from. Perhaps that nonsensicality just bad writing...but I really wonder if they'd have written a male character similarly.
I *do* agree we often give male characters a pass that we don't give female characters - but I don't think that's only because we find male characters hotter, or because we're all prejudiced against female characters. I think a lot of female characters are written as less interesting or quirky or heroic or brilliant than their male counterparts. (...Heck, I wonder if we become more interested in female characters' backstories because we are given less to work with in the present - we knew John liked ferris wheels and speed by the pilot. Do we know a single hobby of Keller's after a year and a half? We don't even know why she wants to be on Atlantis. We want to know her past in hopes that it will give us insight into her opaque present self...) If we're prejudiced against female characters, it's because we have reason to be - and it's reasons that still exist.
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Re: new thoughts, part two
Date: 2008-09-29 03:48 pm (UTC)Which is to say - if you feel your squee starting to slip (or if you feel it already) I ask that you not read this - all you have to do is say you've had enough, and I will drop it immediately. (I'm not feeling as squee-harshed now because I'm discussing writing trends rather than characters, which is something I very much enjoy...even if it's a bit shooting fish in a barrel to critique SGA writers, god bless 'em; I love our big dumb show so very much, but 'dumb' is the key word...!)
I'm not a big Carson fan either - liked him okay as a supporting character; was bored to tears when he got a starring role. So I'd agree that Carson wasn't the best-developed either. But Carson actually did prove himself on several occasions - "Poisoning the Well," he does science that an entire planet couldn't figure out; in "Conversion" he's seen managing a whole room of doctors, but he's the one coming up with ideas. We've never seen Keller in competition with anyone in her field - the couple times she's worked with Carson, Carson comes out looking equal to her, if not better. (Carson also did original science projects, like giving the ATA gene to new people or fixing the Wraith - Keller has done science, but it's always been based on previous research, either Carson's or Michael's; she's yet to be shown trying to accomplish something new, only recreating previous research.) I'm not saying that Keller isn't capable of such genius - only that the show has never shown her doing it. If she is specially gifted, the writers are not emphasizing it, while they did with Carson on several occasions.
John's actually a slightly different sort of character - what's special about him is less his self and more his circumstances. He's forced into the position he has (by his gene and Sumner's demise and them being stranded the first year) and has to cope. And then the extremity of what he endures after that turns him into something special. It's another classic scifi trope, the unwilling hero. I *think* this might be what Keller's character is intended to be - except that storyline doesn't make sense for her character; there is nothing forcing her into her position, that we've been told. They set up John's character from the start; they make no such effort with Keller. If this were s1, I'd have less trouble with this aspect of Keller's character, because I could believe they don't have any other choice of a doctor in Pegasus. But it makes no sense for the current seasons, not when there's a million other doctors on Earth to choose from. Perhaps that nonsensicality just bad writing...but I really wonder if they'd have written a male character similarly.
I *do* agree we often give male characters a pass that we don't give female characters - but I don't think that's only because we find male characters hotter, or because we're all prejudiced against female characters. I think a lot of female characters are written as less interesting or quirky or heroic or brilliant than their male counterparts. (...Heck, I wonder if we become more interested in female characters' backstories because we are given less to work with in the present - we knew John liked ferris wheels and speed by the pilot. Do we know a single hobby of Keller's after a year and a half? We don't even know why she wants to be on Atlantis. We want to know her past in hopes that it will give us insight into her opaque present self...) If we're prejudiced against female characters, it's because we have reason to be - and it's reasons that still exist.