And one or two questions on one topic I might be exploring in a bit more detail, so:
Are you interested in/have any experience with/in slash/Boys Love/yaoi/ m/m etc.? If yes, do you notice a difference in how it is approached/explored depending on the source culture of the material? Examples/details appreciated.
I'm so-so interested. I identify mostly as a gen fan, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading m/m stuff. I don't really do shipping the way most fangirls seem to? But I do like the occasionally explicit doujinshi or PWP fic!
Second part of your question (and this is all in my opinion, of course - I always feel like I need to disclaim stuff least anyone thinks I believe I am trying to come across as an expert on everything):
There's a lot of trite and silly and unrealistic m/m fic and art on both sides of the Pacific. But if we look at what goes for good stuff, I'd say western fandom is way more interested in pursuing a portrayal of m/m relationships that are believable and maybe at least a little realistic? People have discussions on the portrayal of safe sex, the omission of lube will draw attention, and there's an enormous amount of advice on how to write realistic m/m sex. Plus there's the whole emotional aspect - Western fic deal with the subjects such as being a gay man in the US military, or coming out to your family, or other such subjects.
In contrast, the Japanese fandom do... well, I haven't read all that much, but a lot of it is totally unrealistic. And nobody really seems to care? There are self-lubricating asses and traditional seme/uke roles and if it goes beyond PWP the fact that they're both guys doesn't come up all that much?
I dunno. Like I said - I'm mostly a gen fan. But even I can tell that things like pairing order is still a HUGE deal - something that's not really the case in western fandoms based on western shows. But here? Doujinshi are classified by uke. That's - yeah. It matters. It matters to the point where the new-ish category of "reversible" is something doujinka warn people about. (The word they use is "riba", リバ, and the riba doujin I've read are the closest thing I've seen dj come to the way western fans write PWP, if that makes sense? Of course, my sample is tiny.)
Do you personally approach it differently/have different expectations for how it's depicted in fan works depending on the culture? If so, in what ways?
See above! If it's Japanese, I'm not too surprised to see one of the guys be portrayed as - basically - a girl. In western fandom, I'd expect a fic like that to get ridiculed/shamed, because that's not how gay men work. In Japan? Yaoi/BL really isn't about gay men. (I'm not saying that western slash is, but you know - at least we pretend it is, most of the time? And have discussions about whether this is okay or not and such.)
Other things I expect in doujinshi: asses that work like vaginas (who needs lube or prepping?). Semes staying dressed. Crying boys. "No, no, no!" means "Yes, yes, yes!". No foreplay - or no sex acts other than actual penetration. The bottom covering their face, blushing, going "Don't look at me!" Beautiful, mostly androgynous bodies. Little to no body hair. LOTS OF FLUIDS. XD
Stuff I expect in fic: paragraphs of dialogue during sex (and lots of talking in general - often about emotions). Realistically described sex (it can be bad; it might need preparation and props etc). Kinks. Bodies that aren't "perfect" (SGA fandom was faithful to the actors portraying the characters?).
Finally, I've read some terrible sex and m/m in both western and Japanese fandoms, and I've also read absolutely amazing fics/dj about the same. I don't think either culture has an edge over the other - they can both suck, and they can both do absolutely incredibly things.
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More answers pt 2
Date: 2010-08-27 01:39 pm (UTC)Are you interested in/have any experience with/in slash/Boys Love/yaoi/ m/m etc.? If yes, do you notice a difference in how it is approached/explored depending on the source culture of the material? Examples/details appreciated.
I'm so-so interested. I identify mostly as a gen fan, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading m/m stuff. I don't really do shipping the way most fangirls seem to? But I do like the occasionally explicit doujinshi or PWP fic!
Second part of your question (and this is all in my opinion, of course - I always feel like I need to disclaim stuff least anyone thinks I believe I am trying to come across as an expert on everything):
There's a lot of trite and silly and unrealistic m/m fic and art on both sides of the Pacific. But if we look at what goes for good stuff, I'd say western fandom is way more interested in pursuing a portrayal of m/m relationships that are believable and maybe at least a little realistic? People have discussions on the portrayal of safe sex, the omission of lube will draw attention, and there's an enormous amount of advice on how to write realistic m/m sex. Plus there's the whole emotional aspect - Western fic deal with the subjects such as being a gay man in the US military, or coming out to your family, or other such subjects.
In contrast, the Japanese fandom do... well, I haven't read all that much, but a lot of it is totally unrealistic. And nobody really seems to care? There are self-lubricating asses and traditional seme/uke roles and if it goes beyond PWP the fact that they're both guys doesn't come up all that much?
I dunno. Like I said - I'm mostly a gen fan. But even I can tell that things like pairing order is still a HUGE deal - something that's not really the case in western fandoms based on western shows. But here? Doujinshi are classified by uke. That's - yeah. It matters. It matters to the point where the new-ish category of "reversible" is something doujinka warn people about. (The word they use is "riba", リバ, and the riba doujin I've read are the closest thing I've seen dj come to the way western fans write PWP, if that makes sense? Of course, my sample is tiny.)
Do you personally approach it differently/have different expectations for how it's depicted in fan works depending on the culture? If so, in what ways?
See above! If it's Japanese, I'm not too surprised to see one of the guys be portrayed as - basically - a girl. In western fandom, I'd expect a fic like that to get ridiculed/shamed, because that's not how gay men work. In Japan? Yaoi/BL really isn't about gay men. (I'm not saying that western slash is, but you know - at least we pretend it is, most of the time? And have discussions about whether this is okay or not and such.)
Other things I expect in doujinshi: asses that work like vaginas (who needs lube or prepping?). Semes staying dressed. Crying boys. "No, no, no!" means "Yes, yes, yes!". No foreplay - or no sex acts other than actual penetration. The bottom covering their face, blushing, going "Don't look at me!" Beautiful, mostly androgynous bodies. Little to no body hair. LOTS OF FLUIDS. XD
Stuff I expect in fic: paragraphs of dialogue during sex (and lots of talking in general - often about emotions). Realistically described sex (it can be bad; it might need preparation and props etc). Kinks. Bodies that aren't "perfect" (SGA fandom was faithful to the actors portraying the characters?).
Finally, I've read some terrible sex and m/m in both western and Japanese fandoms, and I've also read absolutely amazing fics/dj about the same. I don't think either culture has an edge over the other - they can both suck, and they can both do absolutely incredibly things.